91 replies to this topic

[Naeron66]

Wolfways, on 30 November 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

So now i think i understand when people say "DHS are fine". They just don't use a heavy mech where your high heat weapons are basically your only weapons.

DHS are fine. LL and PPC run too hot.

That is the issue, for the lower heat weapons current DHS are fine (improving DHS would make them too strong). Its the weapons at the top end that run too hot and this makes it a problem for both DHS and SHS. I tried an atlas build with 32 SHS, I filled every spare slot in that mech up, it was fine with LL but it ran too hot with ERPPC and sustained DPS dropped far to far when compared with a minor difference in alpha damage.

LL variants should have their heat dropped by 1 and PPC variants should have their heat dropped by 2 (1 if they up the projectile speed to near instant) as a starting point, its entirely possible it should drop further.

Edited by Naeron66, 01 December 2012 - 05:20 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

As so many people have stated before me in both eloquent and rigorous fashion, upgrading all DHS to true 2.0 DHS would be a minor increase in efficiency that would benefit heavy and assault mechs most, as well as the very-high-heat weapons like the PPC, ERLL, and LPL. The simple fact is that the heat generation scale has been effectively tripled while the heat dissipation scale has not. Nobody who has even the most simplistic understanding of math should ever fear that boosting DHS output by .6 would make up for a 3x increase in heat generation.

There are two real fixes that I see happening to the underlying heat issues. The first is adjusting the time scale on which heatsinks operate. If a SHS dissipated 1 heat every 7 seconds, and a DHS did 2 heat every 7 seconds, suddenly a lot more builds would be viable.

Alternatively, shaving off one heat from the LL and 2 from the PPC, making ER weapons have +2 heat relative to their standard versions (rather than +3 or +4 or more as they are now), and making the LPL have only +1 heat (matching the increase of the SPL and MPL over their standard versions) should make the large, high-heat weapons much more viable without boosting the useability of the smaller (boatable) weapons.

In neither case does raising DHS values from 1.4 to 2.0 actually make all that much of an effective difference. It would matter more in the former case, but since at that point heat is being balanced by tweaking the dissipation time scale anyway, if 2.0 DHS are too strong just increase the time scale a bit at a time until a good balance point is reached. Incremental changes with time to see them in action across a large population base is and of a right ought to be the gold standard of balance tweaks.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 01 December 2012 - 09:48 AM.

[Volkite]

Naeron66, on 01 December 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

DHS are fine. LL and PPC run too hot.

They run too hot because 1.4HS aren't fine.
They're a big problem for SHS, but for DHS they aren't so much. 1.4HS are a joke.
A bad one, too.

[Krivvan]

Anyone remember when everyone complained that laser boats were considered extremely overpowered back when there were only 1.0 single heat sinks?

[MWHawke]

Rutok, on 30 November 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Great idea. But we should make 2 variants.

1: 2.0 heat sink, available only through mc. Aka "Moneysink"
2. 1.8 heat sink, available after unlocking all pilot skills on all variants and a hefty CBill amount. Aka "Timesink"

Hope you are kidding cause don't give them ideas.. lol!

Merovigian, on 02 December 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

They run too hot because 1.4HS aren't fine.
They're a big problem for SHS, but for DHS they aren't so much. 1.4HS are a joke.
A bad one, too.

Agreed.

[Vapor Trail]

They run hot with .14 sinks... they'll run hot with .2 sinks.

They run hot not because heat sinks aren't working right... they run hot because they're outputting between 2.5 and 3 times the heat the did in TT.

Basically what PGI did was to take your normal everyday TT game passed out a handout and said "here's a new house rule, from now on you can now fire these weapons the listed number of times per turn."

So instead of a PPC or ERPPC firing once a turn, it fires 3 and a third times (3 on the first turn, 3 on the second, 4 on the third).

Instead of a Gauss or AC/20 firing once a turn, it fires two and a half times(2 on the first turn, 3 on the second).

The problem is that the heat dissipation didn't get increased to match... so everything that's low heat can be used at max rate of fire really easily, and the high heat weapons get shafted.

[Tuku]

OP I use an Atlas RS with 4 large lasers and an AC20....Its got a heat efficidancy of somewhere around 1.02.....I say DHS is fine.

[Wolfways]

Tuku, on 02 December 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

OP I use an Atlas RS with 4 large lasers and an AC20....Its got a heat efficidancy of somewhere around 1.02.....I say DHS is fine.

So heat is fine because you don't use the high heat weapons...
Logic at its finest.

[CodeNameValtus]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 November 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

Not all over it, just certain areas of it.

None of which were an appropriate place to deficate.

[Volume]

Rutok, on 30 November 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Great idea. But we should make 2 variants.

1: 2.0 heat sink, available only through mc. Aka "Moneysink"
2. 1.8 heat sink, available after unlocking all pilot skills on all variants and a hefty CBill amount. Aka "Timesink"

Uhm. Care to explain why you want F2P players to be at a permanent disadvantage?

Edited by Volume, 03 December 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[Volume]

Vapor Trail, on 01 December 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

snip

Bravo. You have just explained why most people are tired with GaussWarrior Online. I mean, normally I'd just suffer through it but INCOMING MISSILE

[Treckin]

My atlas with 2 ERPPCs and 46 single heatsinks that still cant fully dissipate the heat says that the PPCs make too much heat lmao.

46 = 10x2 + x(1.4)

26 = x(1.4)

x = 18.6

18.6 + 10 = 28.6

This build is the equivalent of 28.6 double heat sinks, and it still cant dissipate 2 ERPPCs. You cant fit even close to this many doubles on a mech by the way.

Its really just that the PPCs make too much heat. The ER larges and the regular PPCs and the large pulses are more then dissipated by this build.

Edited by Treckin, 03 December 2012 - 10:43 AM.