118 replies to this topic

[Aegis Kleais]

Very cool to hear how the mind of the pilot changes as the game evolves, Bryan. Thanks for the insight.

[StandingCow]

Yea, shows why balancing a game can be a pain... a simple change or addition can really mess with everything.

[Aegis Kleais]

StandingCow, on 10 May 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

Think it is gonna take people a little while to learn they can't just rush in.

Mark my words. We will never run out of people who never learn this tactical rule. Be they scouts or heavies, some people will ALWAYS assume FPS tactics will work well in all games.

The best we can hope for is that the plume from their smoked wreckage gives us an approximation on where enemy forces are.

[Godzilla Enthusiast]

I like the 'short' ranges.

They impact the tactics and make maneuver more important. Short ranges mean that when you get flanked your lance mates need to move to add supporting fire.

Short ranges mean that you can play the range game with assualts. A lone lrm 20 is much less scary than the full weapon load out of an atlas. Stay more than 270 meters away and you will live much longer than if you brave the AC20 4 med lasers and srm 6.

Short ranges let you retreat from unwinnable fights.

Short range means tactics team work and maneuver carry the day. Longer ranges mean that stealth and cover are more important.

[Outlaw2]

I doubt these demos are any real in dictation on how battles will ultimately be played. If you have ever watched MekTek promotional videos, many of them have mechs running around ...at close range... slugging it out like goofs.

Long range battles are not the best for showing off mechs. Im sure the devs simply ran at each other for demonstration purposes and to wow the clueless reporter.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 10 May 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Mason Grimm]

=Outlaw=, on 10 May 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

Long range battles are not the best for showing off mechs. Im sure the devs simply ran at each other for demonstration purposes and to wow the clueless reporter.

See that mech there? I mean the little dot 1200m away just barely peaking over the crest of a hill. What do you mean you don't see it?!?! It's on my radar!!! Wait, did you see that ER Ultra Moar Laz0r Blast0rz he just fired at us? Doesn't that mech looks sexy?!?! What do you mean you still can't see it! He just took a shot at us. Let's see if our ER Ultra Sup3r l33t Canon of Grimm Doom(tm pending) can hit him. Damn! We missed; I think. I couldn't quite tell for this distance but damn did you see that shot!?!?!?! It was blue! And it crackled!!!!

This doesn't work for people!?!?!?! Really?!?!?!

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Mason Grimm, on 10 May 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

See that mech there? I mean the little dot 1200m away just barely peaking over the crest of a hill. What do you mean you don't see it?!?! It's on my radar!!! Wait, did you see that ER Ultra Moar Laz0r Blast0rz he just fired at us? Doesn't that mech looks sexy?!?! What do you mean you still can't see it! He just took a shot at us. Let's see if our ER Ultra Sup3r l33t Canon of Grimm Doom(tm pending) can hit him. Damn! We missed; I think. I couldn't quite tell for this distance but damn did you see that shot!?!?!?! It was blue! And it crackled!!!!

This doesn't work for people!?!?!?! Really?!?!?!

Haha, i think these forums are starting to get to you

Do you get free visits from the PGI counselors?

Edited by DV^McKenna, 10 May 2012 - 07:11 AM.

[AlanEsh]

Spiralcrisis, on 10 May 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

I'm glad to see the TT ranges partially because WHEN we do see the clans, it will be scary again. In MW4 everything was so close I see a clan mech it was pretty ho hum for me. With ranges being back to TT there is actually room for clan weapons to be better.

If the OP nature of clan tech from the TT game is thrown directly into this game, you won't see anyone but diehard IS roleplayers using Inner Sphere tech after about 2 days. I don't particularly want clan weapons to be that much better, they're going to be hard as hell to balance and they'll instantly obsolete IS weapons.

[Rear Admiral]

I, too, like the shorter distances. Maintaining optimal range of your weapons- be them short, medium, or long ranged- was always a major tactical element of TT games. It was difficult-not impossible- to maintain your long range advantage w/ your catapult/archer/whatever, and most board games had a major portion of the action as up close and personal, chaotic, brutal slug fests.

I agree w/ all the posters who say that the shorter ranges allow for more tactical maneuvering and also have the effect of making the maps relatively larger. Positioning, awareness, and the ability to maneuver(flank, retreat, etc) will be enhanced by this. The only people who will complain about this in the end are the ones who simply want to be able to strike at max draw distance and remain at that range the entire map. I, for one, am glad that option is (mostly) going to be off the table.

And, thanks for your responses in this thread, Bryan.

Have a nice day.

[Kudzu]

Angelicon, on 10 May 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

If the OP nature of clan tech from the TT game is thrown directly into this game, you won't see anyone but diehard IS roleplayers using Inner Sphere tech after about 2 days. I don't particularly want clan weapons to be that much better, they're going to be hard as hell to balance and they'll instantly obsolete IS weapons.

Actually, if you balance out the teams it won't be that bad, especially since they're making maps that will negate a lot of the clans range advantage.

[Slyck]

DV^McKenna, on 10 May 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

I think the main concern at least from LRM users is that their current range, puts them into a dangerously close position to the main battle, they will be easily reachable and perhaps too much so, that there is simply not enough ground between LRM range and Laser/AC 10+ Range which significantly disadvantages LRM's.

I think this is just right personally. LRMs should be useful as a support weapon, but if someone choses to focus on you they cannot eliminate an enemy before they close. This os what close support weapons and lance mates are for. This is why the Catapult needs those med lasers.

[shameless]

The main advantage of clan tech really tends to be smaller size and less crit for it. Beyond that, yes higher damage and greater ranges are nice. but come on. On the whole clan mechs are faster, tougher, hit harder and from further away. That's scary as hell.

The Dasher D is an old favorite of mine. 6 ERM mediums, and it moves 162 kph full out... Sure an Atlas can take it down easy if it connects... But the chances of hitting something that fast are generally low. and meanwhile it's going to hit back at the atlas with nearly the same level of firepower if not more...

[Kudzu]

Slyck, on 10 May 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

I think this is just right personally. LRMs should be useful as a support weapon, but if someone choses to focus on you they cannot eliminate an enemy before they close. This os what close support weapons and lance mates are for. This is why the Catapult needs those med lasers.

This is exactly right and why balanced lances will work great. Sure you can rush the Catapult to get inside is LRM minimum range... but that means you're running into the guns of his lancemates in the Hunchback and Atlas (and his own medium lasers), while his buddy in the Jenner is melting through your back armor.

shameless, on 10 May 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

The main advantage of clan tech really tends to be smaller size and less crit for it. Beyond that, yes higher damage and greater ranges are nice. but come on. On the whole clan mechs are faster, tougher, hit harder and from further away. That's scary as hell.
The Dasher D is an old favorite of mine. 6 ERM mediums, and it moves 162 kph full out... Sure an Atlas can take it down easy if it connects... But the chances of hitting something that fast are generally low. and meanwhile it's going to hit back at the atlas with nearly the same level of firepower if not more...

There's a reason the Firemoth D has the a higher BV than most IS assaults (410 more than an Atlas AS7-D), and all it takes is one lucky hit to crush it.

[atlas shrugged92]

there will be more open maps

ign stated in the preview they were only playing with small numbers of people not the large 24 style stuff.

theirs also the gdc video where their fighting over a lake bed and lrms are raining down that looks pretty open to me

[colatruck]

If the LRMs turn out not to be balanced I'm sure the devs wil modify something with them in order to make them balanced.

Right now they probably are close enough to be fine considering all that needs to happen is one of your teamates seeing an enemy mech within the right range for you to fire them.

Look at the assault video... at around 1:20 he is firing off missles at a jenner while also shooting his lasers and ac at the catapult in front of him. When you consider that you only need any 1 enemy mech that any of your teamates can see within the LRMs range to shoot at them, I can easily imagine people will be going through a lot of missles very fast.

[Riptor]

So in short... some people want PGI to remake MW4....

Yeah i dont think that will work out...

[Eagle HH]

Mr Styx, on 10 May 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

It strikes me in those IGN vids that range is a problem,a big fing problem,from those vids it looks like to me just a slobberknocker, IE, the range is so short in respect of the mech there is very little room for tactics,apart from a brawl.
its just a who stays up wins,
well from the extremely short range brawls ive seen,thats includeing the long(ranged)weapons
looks like tribes on ultra slow than mechs to be fair

You are complaining about range being in your face AND the mechs being ultra slow. I'm sorry but you've just countered your argument.I don't see much of a problem with this and I think they did a fine job. The problem I have seen with past MechWarrior games is that the mechs have a tendency to move really fast and in order to compensate for movement speed, the "distances" seemed to have been extended. So do we want everything to move unrealistically fast and expand the maps to suit or do we want to be realistic and understand that the mechs are super heavy and will move slow and the range is not so extremely vast that you can actually play the game without having to use a zoom or enhanced optics. Everything boils down to how the game is scaled, your maps and tabletop values are not the problem, unfortunately everyone that is used to playing older MechWarrior games are not going to be comfortable with it but I for one like it.

[Spooky]

Mr Styx, on 10 May 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

ER tech is only another 50 m

The increase in range for an "ER" weapon can be whatever the Devs want it to be, i.e. what makes sense in the game itself.

[Coralld]

Well the Devs did say the weapons will be able to reach beyond their max range but with significantly less damage. Not like in MW4 where all weapons suddenly just stopped and disappeared. So lasers and PPCs will be able to go beyond their max range but their damage will be much less as it fizzles out. AC weapons will also be able to go beyond their max range, they will just do less damage (Probably still do more damage then lasers) before falling ever so much faster to the ground, kinda like the cannons in Chromehounds. Missiles will be able to reach out at say, 900m for example, but you will not be able to get target lock.

[Major Tom]

I have always disliked the clans for the same reasons as Bill Randals (Developer Interview 2)

Quote

MWO: Is there any part of MechWarrior you’d love to just take straight out of canon?
RB: I’ve said many times over the years that if I’d been there the game mechanics of the Clan weaponry would be very different. It’s not just how powerful those weapons are, but that it seemed from the get go to violate the story aesthetics as presented.
Here were these great, in-your-face warriors and yet they had weapons that allowed a player, in game to simply walk backwards and fire at crazy distances to down your enemy. When we introduced the Clan Heavy Lasers years ago those were more along the lines of what I thought the Clans should’ve had all along…really dangerous and powerful weapons, but shortish range, where the Clanner would be in his element, able to take down 3 and 4 enemy BattleMechs in a whirling dervish of expert maneuvering and markmanship.

So here is hoping that PGI can correct past mistakes design decisions.