92 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

MWO is not a premium time game without full joystick support -with analog turning.

The problems new players have with piloting 'Mechs is not an issue of 3rd person view, 3rd person view will not help them the way you think. It's that MechWarrior is a Joystick game. I know Console games tend to compress every game into a Gamepad controlled one and that most PC Games use a mouse, but there are a certain group of simulator games that play best with a Joystick. Flight Sims, Mech Sims, Spaceflight Sims.

It can be argued that MWO has better accuracy with a Mouse, but mechs pilot easier with a Joystick, especially for new players.

I remember trying to play MW2 with a mouse and keyboard and it was abysmal gameplay, but I got a joystick and it instantly all made sense.

By not supplying Joystick support for new players you are actually driving them off. True, they may not have a joystick now, but do you really think they wouldn't go spend 20-40 bucks if players were saying Joystick support in MWO was great?

Anyway, MechWarrior is a Joystick game, it makes 'mech piloting intuitive. You not including it in MWO by this point is unthinkable.

3rd person view is not going to make MWO easier for new players, but "good" Joystick Support will. Think about it, you know I am right on this.

[Lin Shai]

Niche market. Most people don't even own joysticks any more, which is why they didn't bother making it a priority to support them.

And that's ignoring that the arm/torso separation in this game really isn't suited for joysticks.

[Antony Weiner]

Lightfoot, on 30 November 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

MWO is not a premium time game without full joystick support -with analog turning.

The problems new players have with piloting 'Mechs is not an issue of 3rd person view, 3rd person view will not help them the way you think. It's that MechWarrior is a Joystick game. I know Console games tend to compress every game into a Gamepad controlled one and that most PC Games use a mouse, but there are a certain group of simulator games that play best with a Joystick. Flight Sims, Mech Sims, Spaceflight Sims.

It can be argued that MWO has better accuracy with a Mouse, but mechs pilot easier with a Joystick, especially for new players.

I remember trying to play MW2 with a mouse and keyboard and it was abysmal gameplay, but I got a joystick and it instantly all made sense.

By not supplying Joystick support for new players you are actually driving them off. True, they may not have a joystick now, but do you really think they wouldn't go spend 20-40 bucks if players were saying Joystick support in MWO was great?

Anyway, MechWarrior is a Joystick game, it makes 'mech piloting intuitive. You not including it in MWO by this point is unthinkable.

3rd person view is not going to make MWO easier for new players, but "good" Joystick Support will. Think about it, you know I am right on this.

Dude, whether you are better with a joystick or with a kb+mouse depends on your proficiency with said input devices. Having said that, modern mice are lightyears ahead of cheap joysticks. For what you get in mice for $60 you need to spend $400 on a force sensing joystick, which is the only type of joystick that is even theoretically comparable with any mouse.

In short, your post is bs, sorry. Game plays fine with a mouse and a secondary input device.

Inb4 flamewars between joystickfans and micefans READ THIS: mice reset their relative position every time you end the movement, i.e. after moving 5 digital/analog units left you need to move only 1 analog unit right to move 1 digital unit right. Non-force-sensing joysticks, on the other hand, are inferior to mice in that they do not reset the movement by sheer design, but you have to manually reset the movement, which is continuous. Id est, after moving 5 digital/analog units left, to adjust 1 digital unit right you need to move 6 analog units right.

As a remark, I do understand how cool joysticks are (my heart is with you) and regret that cheap joysticks are by far inferior as an input device to the mice. But, hey, that's just how things are.

Edited by Antony Weiner, 30 November 2012 - 09:44 PM.

[Green Mamba]

I gave up trying to get my MS Sidewinder JS to work.I am just useing Key &Mouse now ...Alot of it is what you get used to.

Would I LIke to be able to use my JS from a view that it is the proper way a Mech Sim should be played,YOU BET I WOULD,but they have alot of other things they need to sort out just to keep the game going.

Maybe down the road once they get the game smoothed out the will add Proper JS support hopefully

Edited by Green Mamba, 30 November 2012 - 08:49 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Lin Shai, on 30 November 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

Niche market. Most people don't even own joysticks any more, which is why they didn't bother making it a priority to support them.

And that's ignoring that the arm/torso separation in this game really isn't suited for joysticks.

Joystick Support is coming, just a question of when. Joysticks will always provide players with easy intuitive 'mech piloting and do it from day one.

I sure hope PGI doesn't think like you because many thousands of players will play MWO with a joystick, but will not have the patience to play MWO with a mouse. Mouse+Keyboard is just a very clumsy interface for Mechs. Third person won't change that either.

[Lin Shai]

Lightfoot, on 30 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Joystick Support is coming, just a question of when. Joysticks will always provide players with easy intuitive 'mech piloting and do it from day one.

I sure hope PGI doesn't think like you because many thousands of players will play MWO with a joystick, but will not have the patience to play MWO with a mouse. Mouse+Keyboard is just a very clumsy interface for Mechs. Third person won't change that either.

So, when you just make up stuff out of thin air, it doesn't actually make it true/real.

Keyboard + mouse is the de facto standard on the PC. That's how most games are played, and what most people are used to. Joystick games have sadly gone the way of the dinosaur and the ones that remain are, again, niche market.

Edited by Lin Shai, 30 November 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[Windies]

In the Closed Beta forums, Paul made a post I believe where they said the current joystick implementation was pretty much what you are looking at for the foreseeable future. Something about the CryEngine not liking joysticks or something.

[Lightfoot]

Antony Weiner, on 30 November 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Dude, whether you are better with a joystick or with a kb+mouse depends on your proficiency with said input devices. Having said that, modern mice are lightyears ahead of cheap joysticks. For what you get in mice for $60 you need to spend $400 on a force sensing joystick, which is the only type of joystick that is even theoretically comparable with any mouse.

In short, your post is bs, sorry. Game plays fine with a mouse and a secondary input device.

inb4 flamewars between joystickfans and micefans: mouse RESETS its position after every movement of your arm. Non-force-sensing joystick does not. I.e. if I move 5 units to the left with a mouse, then to move 1 unit to the right I simply have to move my mouse 1 unit to the right. In case of a cheap (under $300-400) joystick, after moving 5 units left to move 1 unit right I will have to move 6 (six) units right. No precision fire can be accomplished theoretically.

As a remark, I do understand how cool joysticks are (my heart is with you) and regret that cheap joysticks are by far inferior as an input device to the mice. But, hey, that's just how things are.

Have you ever pressed the 'C' key? It resets the the reticles instantly. My logitech 3d Force pro cost $40.00, much less than most gaming mice. Has a full suite of sensitivity and deadzone adjustments. You don't need a 300.00 joystick, that's BS on you.

If mouse+keyboard is so easy, why are they adding 3rd person view to help players learn it? With a Joystick you are competitive in mech games from the first day and after a month you are a pro.

[Karyudo ds]

Lightfoot, on 30 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Mouse+Keyboard is just a very clumsy interface for Mechs.

Sir I have been driving virtual tanks, with and without legs since Quake. I can assure you it's far from clumsy. Just different. I have troubles with Sticks sometimes myself.

[Lightfoot]

Windies, on 30 November 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

In the Closed Beta forums, Paul made a post I believe where they said the current joystick implementation was pretty much what you are looking at for the foreseeable future. Something about the CryEngine not liking joysticks or something.

PGI said analog turning is coming before the game goes live. I know alot of MechWarrior fans who won't bother looking at MWO until it does have joystick support. I tell them it's on the way. They say, let me know.

[Ritter Cuda]

keyboard and mouse = FPS...... joystick = sim What do you want this game to be?

[yashmack]

I havent used a joystick yet as I dont have one that wasnt made in the 90s...
what is missing from joystick support?
I see lots of options to set binding in the options menu, does this not work?
I want to get a joystick but I want to know whats wrong with joystick support first...

[Ryvucz]

Took me some digging, but here it is.

http://mwomercs.com/...joystick-users/

[Ritter Cuda]

yashmack, on 30 November 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

I havent used a joystick yet as I dont have one that wasnt made in the 90s...
what is missing from joystick support?
I see lots of options to set binding in the options menu, does this not work?
I want to get a joystick but I want to know whats wrong with joystick support first...

it really does not work. there are work around but they don't work well ether

[Lightfoot]

Karyudo ds, on 30 November 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

Sir I have been driving virtual tanks, with and without legs since Quake. I can assure you it's far from clumsy. Just different. I have troubles with Sticks sometimes myself.

Mechs are different from tanks although on the surface it might not seem that way.

Anyway PGI, players using a mouse are not going to want Joystick Support or just not care. Some of them are even saying I am making up a story when I say piloting a mech is more intuitive with a Joystick than a mouse. Well it may be true for them, but most will find the joystick easier. In any event, until analog turning is included in joystick support, you don't know what most players want.

yashmack, on 30 November 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

I havent used a joystick yet as I dont have one that wasnt made in the 90s...
what is missing from joystick support?
I see lots of options to set binding in the options menu, does this not work?
I want to get a joystick but I want to know whats wrong with joystick support first...

Analog Turning. Twist and Pitch are already Analog.

Other than that you just need a Joystick with a good profiler. Logitech has a profiler that adjusts sensitvity and deadzones very well and well priced. there may be others.

Edited by Lightfoot, 30 November 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[yashmack]

do you mean turning left and right? I wouldnt expect that to be on my joystick
in ever mech simulator I have ever played they had foot pedals for that
just mapping it to your HAT switch or two buttons would be fine...
is that the only thing that is broken??

[Tempered]

yashmack, on 30 November 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

I havent used a joystick yet as I dont have one that wasnt made in the 90s...
what is missing from joystick support?
I see lots of options to set binding in the options menu, does this not work?
I want to get a joystick but I want to know whats wrong with joystick support first...

Last time I checked, the problem was that one of the axis was digital meaning that it is on/off, instead of analog which is how a joystick is suppose to work. This causes joystick movement to be very jerky. Joystick movement is also extremely slow for some reason. If you move the joystick all the way to one extent, it takes forever for that movement to translate into the game.

You can still use a joystick successfully. What you have to do is to set it up so that pitch back/forward is used as a throttle, side to side is used for turning the mech legs. You do not want to use it for torso movement, as this makes aiming very slow and jerky. So you would end up using a mouse for torso movement and aiming and a joystick for throttle, mech turning. Not the ideal setup.

I miss using my joystick for torso movement so much that i've been looking into building a hybrid controller that works like a mouse but in a joystick like package.

[Karyudo ds]

Lightfoot, on 30 November 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Mechs are different from tanks although on the surface it might not seem that way.

They are and they aren't. Mech have torso's (turrets) and tanks have treads (legs). The Mechs are a bit more complex this time around but I mean the basic coordination. To me this feels very much like driving any FPS tank with a few more controls and mechanics to worry about.

I don't think you're making it up though. Some like sticks, some like mice, some like gamepads. This game should certainly support them all if it can and I don't see why it never would want to.

[Apoc1138]

I have a joystick, but why anyone would want to massively handicap themselves by using one in this game I really don't understand, it's not like a tank or flight sim where you only have 1 crosshair to deal with

the throttle from a joystick setup with either foot pedals or rocker switch on the back for turning could add to immersion (and give you a load of easy to reach buttons), but not using a mouse for aiming is like playing BF3 and never using right mouse to aim down the sights / scope

[yashmack]

Tempered, on 30 November 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

Last time I checked, the problem was that one of the axis was digital meaning that it is on/off, instead of analog which is how a joystick is suppose to work. This causes joystick movement to be very jerky. Joystick movement is also extremely slow for some reason. If you move the joystick all the way to one extent, it takes forever for that movement to translate into the game.

You can still use a joystick successfully. What you have to do is to set it up so that pitch back/forward is used as a throttle, side to side is used for turning the mech legs. You do not want to use it for torso movement, as this makes aiming very slow and jerky. So you would end up using a mouse for torso movement and aiming and a joystick for throttle, mech turning. Not the ideal setup.

I miss using my joystick for torso movement so much that i've been looking into building a hybrid controller that works like a mouse but in a joystick like package.

Ive watched people who are clearly using joysticks while im in spectator mode and do not see this happening
I wish I had a working joystick to try this out with...

Apoc1138, on 30 November 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

I have a joystick, but why anyone would want to massively handicap themselves by using one in this game I really don't understand, it's not like a tank or flight sim where you only have 1 crosshair to deal with

the throttle from a joystick setup with either foot pedals or rocker switch on the back for turning could add to immersion (and give you a load of easy to reach buttons), but not using a mouse for aiming is like playing BF3 and never using right mouse to aim down the sights / scope

I dont agree with this
using a joystick can be just as effective as a mouse and keyboard if you are skilled at the joystick
This is one thing that saddens me about current gaming, there is not enough joystick use in current games
joysticks are relegated to the tiny ones on the console controllers or to flight sims...