92 replies to this topic

[Xmith]

That's great. They need safer barriers for the spectators.

[yashmack]

lol, thats what I thought too XD

[Lightfoot]

After reading all these posts I am at first surprised by all the players who seem unaware of the fun they are missing by not having joystick support with analog turning. With a Joystick, you Turn to your firing point, unlike the Mouse where you Torso-Twist, so Analog Turn is crucial to joystick gamplay.

I have been Mech piloting for a long time now and I can tell you that I played with many leagues, players, units from MW2 to MW4 and everyone used a joystick. Only in MWO have I ever seen anyone pilot 'Mechs with a mouse and keyboard. The main reason for this is that you can't aim with the Joystick support that is currently provided in MWO. So players not only have no choice except to use a Mouse and Keyboard, they also mostly have no knowledge of the fluid motion and fast reactions they would gain from Joystick handling of a 'mech!

I don't see MWO as being much different in 'mech controls than previous MechWarrior titles in spite of the two reticles so I am going to say that most players will jump to a Joystick as soon as it is a viable option, just like they did in every previous MechWarrior title. Some won't of course, which might be good just to show MWO has lots of options for players. However, at the moment MWO is at the point of, "You don't know what you got until you use it", or add support for it.

[whiskey tango foxtrot]

Its all about choice , OP is correct in his posts , to limit choices is a disservice to all MWO players.

Joystick support now please....

[syngyne]

Lightfoot, on 01 December 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

After reading all these posts I am at first surprised by all the players who seem unaware of the fun they are missing by not having joystick support with analog turning. With a Joystick, you Turn to your firing point, unlike the Mouse where you Torso-Twist, so Analog Turn is crucial to joystick gamplay.

That's never how I ran MechWarrior with a joystick. It may be because my first exposure to BattleTech in electronic form was from working at a Virtual World center, but using a joystick to steer with while still using it to aim vertically never made sense to me. You're combining both navigation and half your aiming functionality on one control, while moving the other half of your aim functionality to another control. I prefer to have all aiming on one control (joystick/mouse/whatever), and navigation on a separate control (throttle rocker or foot pedals).

I guess you could use a twist stick, but twist sticks are silly.

I will agree that analog steering is an additional part of the aiming equation and should be implemented. I just prefer it on a separate control from my main aiming axes.

[Lightfoot]

Yes, you use a twist stick unless you have Rudder Peddles or some auxillary controller. I just have a joystick.

[ThinkTank]

I hate playing mech games with a joystick. It doesn't work well at all. I know "most people" won't be going to a joystick even if they support it perfectly. Why? Most people dont even have a joystick anymore because its hard to control anything that isn't an airplane with them. You are always wrestling the joystick on Mech games, instead of using that bit of finesse needed right before your shot.

Keep waiting and let them do something useful instead of waste time on joystick support.

[Fiachdubh]

Have always used joystick for MW games and found it far easier than a mouse. It makes more sense because most decent joysticks these days twist which is perfect for mech games and especially combined with a torso auto center makes it far easier to understand the relation between feet and torso at all times even for a newbie. Took around a hundred drops before got hang of using a mouse. The difference between piloting a mech and understanding where your torso and legs are in relation to each other with a (twisty) joystick and mouse for a newcomer is huge.

The seperate arm/torso aiming is irrelevant as the arm cross hair just moves ahead of your torso movements so will work the same with joystick. If always used mouse for mech games it doesn't really matter but for newcomers and joystick pilots it is a lot harder to keep track of torso twist when using mouse.
Have gotten used to it now but still want joystick support, it is a bit ridiculous that this was not taken care of from the very outset.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 01 December 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[SouthernRex]

Feathering works for now, as a pilot, but I will be very happy when the full analogue comes. By the way, those who talk about mouse and keyboard? LOL? Why even play this game? That's like playing Microsoft Flight Simulator with an NES controller. No thanks.

[Antony Weiner]

SouthernRex, on 01 December 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

That's like playing Microsoft Flight Simulator with an NES controller.

Good thing this game is not a simulator, or you would indeed be correct. But then again, I would just use my joystick.

Edited by Antony Weiner, 01 December 2012 - 12:40 PM.

[von Pilsner]

Yes, please add analog turning soon...

[LynxFury]

Quote

The seperate arm/torso aiming is irrelevant as the arm cross hair just moves ahead of your torso movements so will work the same with joystick. If always used mouse for mech games it doesn't really matter but for newcomers and joystick pilots it is a lot harder to keep track of torso twist when using mouse.
Have gotten used to it now but still want joystick support, it is a bit ridiculous that this was not taken care of from the very outset.

I agree. This is the first MW title I haven't used a joystick. I find joysticks much more intuitive and immersive for manuevering the light and medium and often jumping mechs I like to pilot. Joysticks simply allow far more control; for example, the twisting joystick allows variable speed of torso twisting..something no keyboard control does. Joystick are ideal for jumping, twisting to fire, or lining up for a precise DFAs. MWOs excellent directional JJs would be ideal for a well supported joystick interface. Joysticks in prior titles (as well as other actuall "sims") allow quick look inabled hat keys--these in prior titles were coupled with arm movements for taking side shots, or even shooting behind, while twisted at 90 degrees with arm extended--this sorts of pilot skills not only used in prior games, but mentioned in the books, and completely consistent with the type of things a man-form war machine should be able to do. The game needs down look as well for knowing your at the top of that building, or set up for that perfect DFA.

Edited by LynxFury, 01 December 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[Mack1]

I used a Swivel grip Quickshot when i used to play Earthsiege which made the game very immersive.

MWO is a brutal multiplayer game, anyone using a joystick will be annhilated by a mouse and keyboard player IMO.

[LynxFury]

Quote

MWO is a brutal multiplayer game, anyone using a joystick will be annhilated by a mouse and keyboard player IMO

No more than any other MWx title, and in some ways less so because the terrain and buildings gives fast maneuvering mechs, which are better controlled by joysticks, more places to duck.

Edited by LynxFury, 01 December 2012 - 01:52 PM.

[syngyne]

LynxFury, on 01 December 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Joysticks simply allow far more control; for example, the twisting joystick allows variable speed of torso twisting..something no keyboard control does.

The way MWO is set up analog control of the actual aim cursor is largely irrelevant, because with a mouse you can pretty much instantly put it wherever you want to aim. There's no reason to have variable speed in movement of the cursor because it moves so fast and stops on a dime. Since the torso just follows the arms around, you don't have direct control over it anyway, so analog control for torso twisting is moot.

Where I agree analog control is needed is for steering, which does help for fine tuning your aim. It's just the actual arms/torso mechanics of MWO doesn't necessitate a joystick to be effective.

I've mentioned this before, but if I had my druthers I'd like to see players have an option to have direct torso control, so you could use a joystick to orient the torso, and then have something like TrackIR to control your arm reticle.

[metathias]

Tempered, on 30 November 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

You can still use a joystick successfully. What you have to do is to set it up so that pitch back/forward is used as a throttle, side to side is used for turning the mech legs. You do not want to use it for torso movement, as this makes aiming very slow and jerky. So you would end up using a mouse for torso movement and aiming and a joystick for throttle, mech turning. Not the ideal setup.

You will still have the ON/OFF style leg turn whether or not it is bound to your joystick,mouse,keyboard,throttle, or rudder pedals. Binding what should be your torso turn which is the horizontal axis on your joystick to your legs instead will only end up ruining whatever aim you might hope to acheive. Everyone knows that when you are trying to shoot someone you either have to follow them perfectly as in laser beams, Or you have to lead them just enough for your projectile when fire be it ballistic, or missile to intersect with its intended target at a slightly later point in time. To do this with any consistency for a joystick a proper vector based aiming system must be maintained. The underlying sampling technique for a mouse is very different. just as a mouse is from a keyboard. Have you ever tried to use that program mouse keys that emulates a mouse on a keyboard for when your mouse is either messed up or using a mouse just it'nt possible. If so that experience would be very similar to the problem with non analog systems being bound to analog systems and vice versa found in games like this. So ultimately keep your torso bound to your horizontal/yaw axis on your joystick. And use some of the custom joystick support you can put into your user.cfg in your root mechwarrior directory. Heres the thread for more on that. http://mwomercs.com/...joystick-users/

[Lightfoot]

Mack1, on 01 December 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

I used a Swivel grip Quickshot when i used to play Earthsiege which made the game very immersive.

MWO is a brutal multiplayer game, anyone using a joystick will be annhilated by a mouse and keyboard player IMO.

I use a $40 Logitech 3d Force Pro now and it's not that unusual for me to be the top pilot in the stats for the game. Trouble is without Analog Turning the reticle moves an inch at a time across the screen so it is very difficult to work around this.

[evilC]

LynxFury, on 01 December 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

fast maneuvering mechs, which are better controlled by joysticks, more places to duck.

It's the opposite. In a light, mouse aiming is vastly superior. Joystick aiming is only vaguely comparable in an assault mech.

SouthernRex, on 01 December 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

By the way, those who talk about mouse and keyboard? LOL? Why even play this game? That's like playing Microsoft Flight Simulator with an NES controller. No thanks.

You play MS flight sim with an analugue stick because the flight surface controls are an absolute axis and a joystick is an absolute input device.
MWO's aiming is a RELATIVE axis. Thus to use a stick for it, the game maps the stick's absolute axis to a relative one. Ergo mouse (A relative input device) is infinitely more applicable than a joystick.

I have said it before, I will say it again - Unless MWO supports ABSOLUTE axes (ie joystick half left means torso is twisted half left not twisting left at half speed), it is not SCIENTIFICALLY POSSIBLE for a joystick to compete with a mouse for aiming in a game with FPS style relative aiming.
For christ's sake - go play BF3 with joystick aiming and I don't care if you are the best joystick user in the world, you would get utterly owned. THAT is the ONLY reason why you do not have PC and console players on the same servers in multiplayer FPS. Many game companies have tried it and abandoned the idea because console players with joypads simply cannot compete.

The best control method is a throttle / rocker for speed and leg turn in the off hand and a mouse in the on hand for aiming - all analogue axes, and relative mapped to relative, absolute mapped to absolute.
Duh.

[BlackBeltJones]

Anthony Weiner how about you don't use a joystick yourself and you stop caring about people that do. To argue against other players preferences (especially when the Devs have indicated their desire for joystick support) makes you look silly. If you like joysticks and want MWO to support them then who cares - same result if you don't. Don't pretend that the Devs are not working towards this and don't condemn those that want to this joystick support sooner than later

[Jetfire]

Ordered a full set of CH Products for SQD42/SC eventually and SSZ soon. Hoping to try it on MWO but will wait expectantly for full Joystick support over the coming year.