38 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

Hails to all fellow Mechwarriors!

I recently bought a AWE-8Q, in the beginning, I got big heat problems with it despite fielding 21 DHS.

Loadout: 2 ER PPC, 5 ML.

---

Now I'm running it with 20 DHS and 2 ERLL, 2 LL, 3 SL and its working a bit better, but the heat gererated by those weapons on a AM or a HM is just too great imo and its hard to counter.

In my HBK-4G I had 2 LPL and 1 MPL and 18 DHS and the heat is much more controllable, in fact, my tons / DPS / speed ratio is far higher.

10 games with AWE-8Q avg. DMG 340.
10 games with HBK-4G avg. DMG 572.

Reason: Higher speed means more hits on target. Less weapons result in a higher oberall DPS, because you can't compensate high heat weapons on a AS or HV through DHS because of limeted CRTS.

Conclusion: Mediums are better for EN WPNs than AS or HV.

Opinions? Thoughts?

Would be nice to read your opinion on this.

Wolves, StarCaptain of Clan Coyote (DE)

(Sorry for mistakes - I'm a native german)

[IIIuminaughty]

more ballistics son!

[Commander Gravey]

WolvesX, on 01 December 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

Hails to all fellow Mechwarriors!

I recently bought a AWE-8Q, in the beginning, I got big heat problems with it despite fielding 21 DHS.

Loadout: 2 ER PPC, 5 ML.

---

Now I'm running it with 20 DHS and 2 ERLL, 2 LL, 3 SL and its working a bit better, but the heat gererated by those weapons on a AM or a HM is just too great imo and its hard to counter.

In my HBK-4G I had 2 LPL and 1 MPL and 18 DHS and the heat is much more controllable, in fact, my tons / DPS / speed ratio is far higher.

10 games with AWE-8Q avg. DMG 340.
10 games with HBK-4G avg. DMG 572.

Reason: Higher speed means more hits on target. Less weapons result in a higher oberall DPS, because you can't compensate high heat weapons on a AS or HV through DHS because of limeted CRTS.

Conclusion: Mediums are better for EN WPNs than AS or HV.

Opinions? Thoughts?

Would be nice to read your opinion on this.

Wolves, StarCaptain of Clan Coyote (DE)

(Sorry for mistakes - I'm a native german)

Have you tried a Awesome 8Q with 7 Medium Pulse Lasers? It's piercing through anything.

[WolvesX]

StrataDragoon, on 01 December 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

more ballistics son!

More ballistics on a AWE-8Q?

Tell me more please.

EDIT: This it not meant offensive, I just mean, how to make that thing more viable.

You know, I got the 3 EN 4 RL version too, it seems great. had 1342 DMG once with it.

Edited by WolvesX, 01 December 2012 - 06:30 AM.

[IIIuminaughty]

just more ballistics son!

[WolvesX]

StrataDragoon, on 01 December 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

just more ballistics son!

Come on StrataDragoon, don't troll me please.

[IIIuminaughty]

no troll seriously use more ballistics if u are running hot...and what I mean by that get a mech that can use ballistics. the awe-8q is a heater. An assault suporting energy, you are bound to over heat with the weapon choices you put on there.

[Kurayami]

heh a friend of my running catafalk with 5 erll - alpha+3erll=1 kill (and well shutdown)

[The Jove]

WolvesX, on 01 December 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

Hails to all fellow Mechwarriors!

I recently bought a AWE-8Q, in the beginning, I got big heat problems with it despite fielding 21 DHS.

Loadout: 2 ER PPC, 5 ML.

Look here: http://mwomercs.com/...s-excel-inside/

ER weapons have hideous heat generation. Do you really need the extended range/be able to fire them point blank?

WolvesX, on 01 December 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

Now I'm running it with 20 DHS and 2 ERLL, 2 LL, 3 SL and its working a bit better, but the heat gererated by those weapons on a AM or a HM is just too great imo and its hard to counter.

Again, ERLLs have hideous heat generation. I'd switch them to LLs instead.

WolvesX, on 01 December 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

In my HBK-4G I had 2 LPL and 1 MPL and 18 DHS and the heat is much more controllable, in fact, my tons / DPS / speed ratio is far higher.

10 games with AWE-8Q avg. DMG 340.
10 games with HBK-4G avg. DMG 572.

Reason: Higher speed means more hits on target. Less weapons result in a higher oberall DPS, because you can't compensate high heat weapons on a AS or HV through DHS because of limeted CRTS.

Conclusion: Mediums are better for EN WPNs than AS or HV.

Opinions? Thoughts?

Would be nice to read your opinion on this.

Wolves, StarCaptain of Clan Coyote (DE)

(Sorry for mistakes - I'm a native german)

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the conclusion. Heavier mechs have the crits and tonnage to mount bigger engines, and since engine DHS actually are double (external DHS are 1.4), they gain some advantage from that.

I'd recommend looking closely at the HPS for your chosen weapons, and seeing whether you can't move from ER/Pulse weapons to standard ones.

[Vapor Trail]

Somehow I think the description "unable to approach the relative performance of ballistics at long range" pretty much sums up energy only builds.

If you just about max a mech with DHS (~17 extra DHS (.14 heat/sec rate for non-default DHS), requires 350Std engine), you can run one ERPPC at maximum rate of fire.

With the same tonnage investment (~24 tons) and much less critical space you can mount a Gauss and output a greater max DPS.

As Heat/shot drops, # of heat sinks required to get maximum performance from a weapon decreases.

This is why the AC/5 is currently near (if not exceeding) the PPC's performance in average Damage per Second, for a given tonnage and/or critical space investment.

Take 12-18 tons in ballistic weapon, ammo and heat sinks... and get 2.94DPS until your ammo runs out...
Or take 12 -18 in energy weapon and double heat sinks (with their huge crit penalty)... and get 3.33 DPS.

For comparison AC/10 requires 17 to 25 tons, and outputs 4 DPS. aaaaaaaaaaaaaand...
A Gauss requires ~19 tons, and outputs 3.75 DPS over a much greater range than either the AC/10, AC/5 or PPC.

Not much remains outside the nutshell.

[RainbowToh]

Think of it this way, do you want a high heat alpha strike? Or a lesser heat weapons loadout that lets u fire at a good pace but for lower damage? Thats the tradeout you need to think about. If you feel that energy weapons are too hot, try missiles and ballistics. They offer good damage at the expense of other factors, such as accuracy (missile spread), tonnage (BIG GUNS) n most impt ammo.

If you still want to keep all those weapons, all the ER, LL n stuff, I can give you a piece of advice.

Try to choose which weapons you would fire at for different ranges and for different targets. For example, avoid using ur LL for brawls since you prob miss often, use ur lesser heat energy weapons n only firing ur LLs when u have a good shot. This is one way to manage your heat, that is using ur weapons at their best optimised roles.

[Vlad Ward]

Large Energy Weapons (LL, PPC, ERPPC, ERLL, etc) are currently grossly underpowered. This is being worked on by the Devs.

Small Energy Weapons are currently ineffective on the AWS-8Q because it is fat and slow.

Conclusion: The AWS-8Q is combat ineffective in the current build of the game.

If you really like Energy builds on the Awesome chassis, buy an AWS-9M and fit it out with Medium Pulse Lasers and a 385-rated engine.

[LaserAngel]

Commander Gravey, on 01 December 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Have you tried a Awesome 8Q with 7 Medium Pulse Lasers? It's piercing through anything.

I've only heard stories about the XL 400, 7 ML Awesomes that ran around before Open Beta but you really need stand off range. Even in my XL 385 Awesome 9M I'm using 3LL to provide that.

You would get that from running a Large Laser rave boat or PPC lightning generator and be able to manage the heat if we were in tabletop. Sadly, that isn't the case here in MWO. Your get speed capped on everything but the 9M, you're already at a disadvantage vs. the Atlas, and your CT sticks out like a sore thumb. Range is survival for the Awesome, then its speed.

http://mwomercs.com/...322-er-weapons/

The developers chimed in here on ranged heavy energy weapons improvements. So have hope!

Edited by LaserAngel, 01 December 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

The XL400, 7MPL AWS-8Qs were glorious. Glorious.

Between them and Swaybacks, they're pretty much the reason that missiles and ballistics got buffed so much.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 01 December 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[Vapor Trail]

And since the engine limits went in... the 7MPL Awebomination has (thankfully) died off.

Apparently it takes a bit more to kill a Swayback... but they're supposed to be there.

[Leetskeet]

You have PPC's. That's where you messed up.

Listen. They suck. They suck bad. Take them off.

[John Norad]

WolvesX, on 01 December 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

I recently bought a AWE-8Q, in the beginning, I got big heat problems with it despite fielding 21 DHS.

In my HBK-4G I had 2 LPL and 1 MPL and 18 DHS and the heat is much more controllable, in fact, my tons / DPS / speed ratio is far higher.

That's the heat neutrality bogieman at work right there.

Heat dissipation is capped by space, which every mech has the same.
Weapon loadout is capped mostly by tonnage, which scales.

If you already are at the effective maximum for heat dissipation and heat utilization, adding more energy weapons makes very little sense, except giving you higher alpha strikes. The only thing you could do is invest tonnage in low heat weapons. That'd be mostly ballistic ones. Unfortunately not every mech has ballistic hardpoints..
So the current maximum heat dissipation pretty much cripples heavy mechs, since it doesn't let them play to their advantage, which is potential high weapon density.

All because PGI (most likely) fears that matches could be too short. Booo! Yeah... works great so far.

Edited by John Norad, 01 December 2012 - 09:07 AM.

[LaserAngel]

John Norad, on 01 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

That's the heat neutrality bogieman at work right there.

Heat dissipation is capped by space, which every mech has the same.
Weapon loadout is capped mostly by tonnage, which scales.

If you already are at the effective maximum for heat dissipation and heat utilization, adding more energy weapons makes very little sense, except giving you higher alpha strikes. The only thing you could do is invest tonnage in low heat weapons. That'd be mostly ballistic ones. Unfortunately not every mech has ballistic hardpoints..
So the current maximum heat dissipation pretty much cripples heavy mechs, since it doesn't let them play to their advantage, which is potential high weapon density.

All because PGI (most likely) fears that matches could be too short. Booo! Yeah... works great so far.

In addition, energy boats have some of the lowest repair/rearm costs in the game. You don't have to worry about wasting ammunition or rearming after a match. I believe that energy weapons do have slightly higher repair costs to offset the lack of ammunition costs but it is something that I barely notice it at all. I can still make a few thousand more C-Bills per match getting cored in my raveboat Hunchback 4P vs. my Hunchback 4SP. My Awesome 8Q is probably the cheapest Assault to run in game. I've never broken ~60,000 C-bills in repairs.

Energy Weapons as well are hardpoint limited. I never played Mechwarrior 3 or 4 in multiplayer but those that have here tell stories of pure +12 laserboating to be effective at all. I am glad we have a much larger list of viable weapons in MWO and so are the developers.

[Gristle]

WolvesX, on 01 December 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

...
Opinions? Thoughts?

Would be nice to read your opinion on this.

Wolves, StarCaptain of Clan Coyote (DE)

(Sorry for mistakes - I'm a native german)

Try something like this build: AWS-8Q 2xPPC 5MPL SHS

Spoiler

Chassis Name: Awesome
Model Name: AWS-8Q
Variant Name: 2xPPC 5xMPL
Engine: 240 Reg Engine
Internal Type: Endo Steel
Armor Type: Std Armor
Heat Sinks: 30 (9) Standard Heat Sinks
Tonnage: 80.00
Speed: 48.6 kph
Armor Total: 464
Alpha Strike Damage: 50.00
Alpha Strike Heat: 43.00
Firepower: 14.67 dps
Heat Efficiency: 23.68%
Effective Range of Loadout: 180m
Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 48/68
Right Rear Torso: 20/68
Center Torso: 65/100
Center Rear Torso: 35/100
Left Torso: 48/68
Left Rear Torso: 20/68
Right Arm: 52/52
Left Arm: 38/52
Right Leg: 60/68
Left Leg: 60/68
Right Arm:
Medium Pulse Laser
Medium Pulse Laser
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Left Arm:
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Right Torso:
Medium Pulse Laser
PPC
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Left Torso:
PPC
Medium Pulse Laser
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Center Torso:
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Head:
Medium Pulse Laser
Right Leg:
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Left Leg:
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
File created using MWO Mechbay

Or this one: AWS-8Q 6xLL SHS with 2 weapon groups (1) arm (2) torso both set to chainfire

Spoiler

Chassis Name: Awesome
Model Name: AWS-8Q
Variant Name: 6xLL
Engine: 240 Reg Engine
Internal Type: Endo Steel
Armor Type: Std Armor
Heat Sinks: 25 (9) Standard Heat Sinks
Tonnage: 79.81
Speed: 48.6 kph
Armor Total: 426
Alpha Strike Damage: 54.00
Alpha Strike Heat: 42.00
Firepower: 12.71 dps
Heat Efficiency: 25.30%
Effective Range of Loadout: 450m
Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 48/68
Right Rear Torso: 20/68
Center Torso: 75/100
Center Rear Torso: 25/100
Left Torso: 48/68
Left Rear Torso: 20/68
Right Arm: 52/52
Left Arm: 20/52
Right Leg: 50/68
Left Leg: 50/68
Right Arm:
Large Laser
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Large Laser
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Left Arm:
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Right Torso:
Large Laser
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Large Laser
Heat Sink
Left Torso:
Large Laser
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Endo Steel
Large Laser
Heat Sink
Center Torso:
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Head:
Endo Steel
Right Leg:
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
Left Leg:
Heat Sink
Heat Sink
File created using MWO Mechbay

[Aegis Kleais]

I have a 4x Large Laser CTF-3D at the moment. And I'm not sure if this is partly due to the hitbox registration, but I'd like to see a 5-10% boost in their damage.

The range differences isn't really that big compared to the mediums for the amount of heat and weight they have, but no more than that;