191 replies to this topic

[Kobold]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 December 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

And then on the other side of the coin you get pre-made players who have no respect for PUG players. Several times when I've done just as well or better than the pre-made team I happen to get matched with, they'll blow off a limb or two when we're sitting on the base to cap.

Lesson: All people are dicks, regardless of what game they play or how they choose to play it.

[One Medic Army]

Atrophied typing skills pretty much covers it.

[Hayashi]

Vlad Ward, on 01 December 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Unfortunately, sometimes it just doesn't matter what you do. Some people just hate so blindly and so vigorously that they'll turn on you at the drop of a hat if they know you're one of the "Premade scum". So please, don't fault some groups for getting tired of taking friendly fire or less friendly trashtalk from their teammates. Even if it only happens one game in 10 or 20, each experience is more than sufficient to sour the rest. A few bad apples spoil the bunch and all that.

I suppose that feeling is completely understandable. Had a game on caustic before when a PuG player (forgot his name, the guy is of no consequence anyway) asked for premade players to give a plan. Well, that game we only had myself and ONE friend with me, so while technically we're a premade a 2 man premade isn't really much of one.

We set up a plan, the PuGs moved to the crater to set up an ambush while I went to locate the enemy team. Found them, amassed the team at the enemy team's exit point. My friend (he was in a BAP raven spotter) withdrew to spot for LRM fire, I turned my Dragon to the other side of the crater to engage the 2 light Mechs on that side attempting to stealth cap. So basically, we have 6 people (+1 spotter) ambushing a team of 4 on the enemy side (technically 7v4), I engaged 2, and the remaining 2 enemy PuGs were wandering around somewhere not helping.

The team of 6 were bad shots. There was friendly fire too - the guy I mentioned earlier starting complaining in team chat about being shot in the back by friendlies, and demanding the lousy premade who shot him own up and take responsibility.

The Raven was spotting and had only medium lasers from a cliff 800m away to one side, I was fighting on the other side of the crater. Funny how he thought we could do any friendly fire under those conditions.

Eventually one of the wandering enemy PuGs (Atlas) joined his team against my team, the other one (centurion) joined the fight against me after I killed one of the two enemies. Under these conditions, the 6+1v5 fight resulted in the loss of all 6 mechs on my team, and 4 mechs on the enemy team. The spotter Raven moved to cap the base because he knew he shouldn't fight a nearly full armour Atlas 1v1. I took critical damage to basically the whole Mech, ran out of ammo, lost an arm and killed off the other 2 (fighting 1v2 or 1v3 is painful even if they're lights), but am in no condition to fight an Atlas head on either. The Atlas moved (slowly) back to his base), I sniped his rear CT from behind cover, and cored the Atlas from behind just as he entered the cap square, about 10 seconds before my friend could complete his cap.

All the way, that PuG player was complaining nonstop about lousy premades, swearing and demanding the premade who shot him own up.

When it was the premade (pair) players that survived the match, and who basically carried that match. Most games, PuGs aren't so lousy as to lose a 6+1 v 5 fight, but people are different every game.

I still continue to coordinate, still reveal when i drop with my group and all that though, the better endgame results are worth it IMO. But I do know what it means when people hate on you for no reason whatsoever, and it certainly isn't a good feeling at all.

---

On the other side of the coin, some premade players are just plain rude to PuGs, making very well known their perceptions that PuGs suck at the start of the match.

Stuff like:

"We're a premade, you can stick with us, or you can wander off, do your own thing and die if you prefer."
"We're a premade, please don't suck."
"Don't suck this game like the Pugs from the previous game."

People don't respond very well to instructions when you start your introductions like this, just saying.

Edited by Hayashi, 01 December 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[S3dition]

Pugging and premaking are both CHOICES. You have to learn to live with the CHOICE you make when playing the game. For the record, premades:

DO NOT
AFK
Suicide
TK

DO
work together
listen to the team

I can't say the same for pugs. I've actually had to put my mech between a pugger and an AFK enemy ( and take damage in the process) so we could cap. Puggers simply don't listen 90% of the time. Since there are no regional servers, a lot of them can't even speak English. All they do is blame premades for everything.

[Vlad Ward]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 December 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

And then on the other side of the coin you get pre-made players who have no respect for PUG players. Several times when I've done just as well or better than the pre-made team I happen to get matched with, they'll blow off a limb or two when we're sitting on the base to cap.

Oh, I'm sure. In fact, I think I've actually posted similar stories of premade players being jerks to PUGs whenever I play in them.

I'm not saying that it's a one-sided problem. I just understand why some corps may not be so eager to put themselves out there. Likewise, I can understand why some PUGs may not be so eager to follow a premade's directions. In general, the community is just far too angry. Matchmaking upgrades like ELO and team queues should help calm people down.

[Lefty Lucy]

Vlad Ward, on 01 December 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Oh, I'm sure. In fact, I think I've actually posted similar stories of premade players being jerks to PUGs whenever I play in them.

I'm not saying that it's a one-sided problem. I just understand why some corps may not be so eager to put themselves out there. Likewise, I can understand why some PUGs may not be so eager to follow a premade's directions. In general, the community is just far too angry. Matchmaking upgrades like ELO and team queues should help calm people down.

However, I'd like to specifically call out Anders as being a really stand-up guy. Every time I've dropped with him or against him he has always been respectful and appreciative of my help, or acknowledged me as a doughty opponent after the match. Well met, Anders!

[Hayashi]

Vlad Ward, on 01 December 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Matchmaking upgrades like ELO and team queues should help calm people down.

I'm not sure if matchmaking upgrades might help with the situation though. People do like to blame everyone but themselves. I'm guessing when skill-based matching comes up we'll see a sudden spike of forum complaints about noobs on their team throwing the game for them - since at present good players aren't used to the idea that the average WLR is, by definition 1:1. They might even say the system isn't working because it's matching them with bad players.
People are very good at looking at the faults of others, not so much at looking at themselves, in general. People also prefer to blame others for doing nothing instead of taking responsibility and fixing the problem themselves. There are always exceptions to everything, but I'm not optimistic that this kind of behaviour will disappear as long as someone loses a match.

[S3dition]

Hayashi, on 01 December 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

I'm not sure if matchmaking upgrades might help with the situation though. People do like to blame everyone but themselves. I'm guessing when skill-based matching comes up we'll see a sudden spike of forum complaints about noobs on their team throwing the game for them - since at present good players aren't used to the idea that the average WLR is, by definition 1:1. They might even say the system isn't working because it's matching them with bad players.
People are very good at looking at the faults of others, not so much at looking at themselves, in general. People also prefer to blame others for doing nothing instead of taking responsibility and fixing the problem themselves. There are always exceptions to everything, but I'm not optimistic that this kind of behaviour will disappear as long as someone loses a match.

When a whine thread about the A1 and how PGI will go out of business tomorrow unless they release "what I want right now" can hit hundreds of replies in less than 6 hours, and people trying to create community content to help the game barely get a dozen replies...

Yeah, way too much hatred and venom in the player base.

[Sikosis]

I thought to really add to this discussion, but as I read through all the posts and opinions / stories I realized no one was talking about what should be spoken of . . . . THE PROBLEM. Not symptoms of the THE PROBLEM . . . not stories related to the symptoms. . . but THE PROBLEM itself . . .

THE PROBLEM is simply that PGI has FAILED to properly establish the platform they themselves sought in the first phase of this game. This game is SUPPOSED to be a TEAM based coordinated effort with a simulation feel to replicate battle in futuristic big stompy metal robots. We have the big stompy mechs, we have the "teams" all be it forced, disrupted and chaotic. . . we do NOT have the coordination because PGI FAILED to provide PROPER COMS! ! ! !

C3 is a JOKE - it is structured improperly, most people do NOT know about it and those who try it are very quickly made aware of it's useless, overburdened presence as a thorn in your side communications start up that really needs to be trimmed down and put in its place. . .

They have the ability to modify the coms program to at launch associate people according to their grouping, place them into a channel and voip them up so that communication can occur. Now they can't simply leave it at that, because as ALL of these stories and tales of hate and glory have demonstrated people are often immature and abusive via chat, imagine what might happen with unchecked coms being dropped on them. . . they MUST get the coms in place and make sure that as in normal VOIP settings people have recourse towards an undesirable player. . . mute, report, etc. . . . They MUST make this a focus of the game as much as any other issue that they face in order to bring the game into its own and put it on a path of cooperation and coordinated interest in its success, which I hope we all still hold at heart.

We must at EVERY turn, from this point forward, learn to discern the difference between symptom and source. In doing so we must strive ever so diligently to identify the problem and focus on sourcing the solution to that versus band-aide'n symptoms . . . its simply the most horrible and chaotic way of doing business and will ruin a project.

My sincerest respect and support. . .

SIKOSIS

[Red squirrel]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 December 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

So you guys have tried it a few times and decided it never works. Right.

In every single game I'm in a group, I tell the other people we dropped with. A lot of the time it's another group, some of the time the other group wants to coordinate, and some of the time they want to do their own thing and lose horribly. A lot of the time it's PUGs, and even every once in a while we'll get a PUG player say "thank god." That PUG player usually follows along *very* well. A lot of the time the PUG players go along with us fairly well. Some of the time, they say "you're not the boss of me" and do their own thing.

Last night we had 3 people on, and we won a game pretty handily after communicating with our PUG pickups. After the game, I got a friends invite from one of the guys, toastersupreme. We got him into the group, got him on TS, and he ended up being the super star in a few of the drops that night.

It's a social game, and if you can't communicate well with people you don't know, you're gonna have a bad time.

Finally a good example

[QuantumButler]

Repeating the same actions over and over again and expecting a different result is one of the signs of madness, you know.

[Kobold]

Sikosis, on 01 December 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

We must at EVERY turn, from this point forward, learn to discern the difference between symptom and source. In doing so we must strive ever so diligently to identify the problem and focus on sourcing the solution to that versus band-aide'n symptoms .

Good luck with that.

As an aside, I was unaware your name was pronounced Sisyphus.

[Taizan]

I see three reasons for this:

• People on voice tend to either ignore any chat or prefer not to type, because well.. they are on voice
  
• The polarization between premades and pug players, leading to bickering and aggravating chat
  
• Missing "common ground" communication. No quick command functions, the "take command" function works but imo is unwieldy during the heat of the battle and the chat disappears way to fast to keep players updated on the current strategy.

[Anders]

Vapor Trail, on 01 December 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

So how does "You just lost to a set of pugs" translate? Just wondering cause I was pugging recently and we went 8-0 vs at least two of the "English challenged, avian pilots." I wanted to inform them of the fact but found the language barrier daunting.

Mr. Vapour Trail:

If possible please provide names. At 1500+ pilots, it's hard to keep track of who is good and who isn't (and who is attempting to pass themselves off as a goon), so you can always PM me screenshots of said avian pilots so that we can make fun of them internally. Or put them on the Fake Goon list.

Hayashi, on 01 December 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

By the way, 'SQUAWK' is an indication you are not only playing with a premade, but a very specific premade type - the Goon squad. It's their way of letting you know it's them, which is understandably confusing if you haven't encountered them before.

Mr. Hayashi:

If you could be so kind in the future to use the correct appellation of "The Word of Lowtax", it would be much appreciated. "the Goon squad" as you put it, is a World of Warcraft group composed of Something Awful members. In addition, the creation of a "Goon Squad" lance by the Word of Lowtax in the future could serve as a possible point of confusion with the greater community. We here at the Word of Lowtax strive as much as possible for brand clarity, so we have to take steps clear up sources of potential brand confusion such as this.

We here at the Word of Lowtax hope you understand.

We here at The Word of Lowtax thank you for your posts. We here at the Word of Lowtax realize that you have limited entertainment electrons and appreciate that you're spending your posts on us. Please continue to choose the Word of Lowtax in your future electron spending! We are grateful for your out of the box, blue-sky thinking, and appreciate you touching base with us here at the Word of Lowtax. We hope to synergize our efforts to achieve quantifiable paradigm redefinitions in a future collaboration soon.

Robotically Yours,
Anders

Public Relations Officer
Director of Man/Bird Relations
Loremaster of Word of Lowtax
Veteran of the First Round of the Run Hot or Die Funzies Tournament
A Draaaaaaagun Slayer, Victor over the "4 time crowned Champion from the day."
OpFor Veteran of Second Round of the Run Hot or Die Funzies Tournament
Survivor of the Great Market Collapse of September 18, 3049
Bro-Bots with Mech Romney, Member of the 53%
Commissioner of Entertainment Electrons
A [REDACTED] Asset
Oft Imitated, Never Duplicated
Crackin' Turtles since 3049
Master of the Trial of Walter
Marik Militia Masher
'Mechstradamus
Campaigning in the Inner Sphere for a better Capella
Survivor of the Festival of Artemis
Podcasting Propaganda Information directly to your Neurohelmet 24/7/365
ilKhan of Clan Moderator-in-Exile
Bropocalypse Now Battalion - "The Fist of Lowtax"

[Kobold]

Taizan, on 01 December 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

I see three reasons for this:

• People on voice tend to either ignore any chat or prefer not to type, because well.. they are on voice
  
• The polarization between premades and pug players, leading to bickering and aggravating chat
  
• Missing "common ground" communication. No quick command functions, the "take command" function works but imo is unwieldy during the heat of the battle and the chat disappears way to fast to keep players updated on the current strategy.

Customizable keybind system are LosTech from the Quake engine.

[Taizan]

Kobold, on 01 December 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Customizable keybind system are LosTech from the Quake engine.

Kickass obituary messages as well ;o)

[Garrand]

Premades stopped trying because people wouldn't listen. They really don't care about the other 4 randoms because soon enough they won't need them.

[Konrad]

Lefty Lucy, on 01 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

Seriously, when I'm playing PUGboss, it's almost always the silent "we're doing our own thing and don't give a frak about the rest of you guys" pre-mades who are the ones not following the plan.

Ideally, they should be the ones leading, since they have the advantage of voice coms, so even a simple "we're a pre-made, so follow along please" and then calling priority targets would suffice.

So if half the drop is doing something organized and you a quarter of the other half has a plan that they aren't following you are in the right? That math doesn't make sense man.

[gregsolidus]

They talk alright, they say "we are premade" and the pugs follow them without a word.

[Lefty Lucy]

Konrad, on 01 December 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

So if half the drop is doing something organized and you a quarter of the other half has a plan that they aren't following you are in the right? That math doesn't make sense man.

No, at that point I usually say "oh it looks like those guys are doing their own thing so just follow them."

Doesn't mean they shouldn't take 30 seconds to let the rest of the team know what's up though.