27 replies to this topic

[Donalbain]

I've just discovered this awesome build for my Dragon, and it happens to work on all the variants. With 1 Gauss & 2 PPC, you can alpha for 35 damage, which as far as pinpoint snipe alphas go, is only second to the intolerably hot 4x PPC setup or the annoyingly ammo dependent, short range, and slower traveling 2x AC20 setup (both 40 damage).

I'm running this with Dual Heat Sinks (just 1 engine heat sink, 1.1 heat efficiency) and have Endo-Steel. I'm also using an XL300 engine which gets me up to a very respectable 81mph so that it's really easy to move to advantageous firing lines and move out of the bad spots. The Dragon has a huge center torso, and fairly hard to hit side torsos, so standard engine didn't really make sense to me, and this way I've got enough tonnage for both speed, firepower and a pretty respectable 271 armor, which is all maxed in center & side torsos and loses and bit on legs, arms and back.

The heat is really manageable, and I can pack 30 gauss rounds, so ammo management is not a problem. It also helps that PPCs and Gauss have the same travel speed so they are quite easy to aim together. What's also nice is that once you do have heating problems, you can switch to the Gauss only, or, if you have a moving target that you don't want to risk Gauss ammo on you can switch to single PPC shots, which really aren't that bad heat wise.

This has been working amazingly well for me, and pretty much always gets me in the top 3 in PUGs with usually around 400-800 damage done. What's nice is the damage is all focused so the Kills are often much higher than the damage would suggest.

Any critiques of this build? Any other mechs/variants that you think would run something like this better?

Edited by Donalbain, 01 December 2012 - 12:33 PM.

[Juevos Brown]

No negative comments to give you. If it works for you and you can manage what heat there is and kill the bad guys then awesome for you. There is so much talk on these forums about OP builds and boat builds that real customization talk gets lost in the sauce. Granted yours is kind of a boat build but it is a great use of a dragon and sniping and moving fast are 2 things that mech is really good at. The best part is you are excited about it and are more than likely going to go out and be a solid asset for your team. Im actually a big fan of the dragon though I havent used it since Open Beta due to running my Founders Atlas as primary but that seems like a solid build as long as you dont get stuck in a face to face situation. Good Luck!

[Dagnome]

I noticed a few K-2's using the Gauss/PPC build quite effectively. I would think that you have very limited ammo for that gauss though.

Like the other poster said, if it is working for you then by all means keep on trucking my friend.

[Stradivarious]

You've got yourself a barebones Marauder. Though I'm betting the weapons locations are off.

I run a similar build on my founder's Atlas and a RS I keep for when the other is locked out. Dual ER PPCs, Gauss Rifle with 40 rounds of ammo and 19DHS. In addition I have dual medium lasers as backups or additional firepower as needed. Essentially a slightly modified Marauder II since I can't mount jump jets. Very successful config as long as you know how to manage heat.

That exact loadout can also fit on a Cataphract D but runs really hot, downgrading the Gauss to an AC/5 helps a bit and fits more with canon.

In case I'm confusing you with the Marauder references, they are "unseen" 75 and 100 ton designs from the very beginning of BattleTech(where Mechwarrior comes from) that they(meaning PGI or anyone else for that matter) can't use the original graphic art due to copyright issues. Very famous and known for their dual heavy energy mounts with a decent ballistic sidecar.

Links to more info: Marauder I - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marauder
Marauder II - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marauder_II

Edit: Also for you clan fans, the Marauder is half of the basis for the Mad Cat, it's model number preface is MAD(as in MAD-3R for the stock 3025 version).

Edited by Stradivarious, 01 December 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Sounds like a fun build to me! I personally can't stand the Dragon but if it works for you more power to you!

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Sounds great and I'll give it a try. The Dragon is one mech I've really struggled with in terms of finding a good load out, but this fast sniper looks a good bet. Have you tried ERPPC for the extra range?

[TruePoindexter]

RocketDog, on 01 December 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Sounds great and I'll give it a try. The Dragon is one mech I've really struggled with in terms of finding a good load out, but this fast sniper looks a good bet. Have you tried ERPPC for the extra range?

Given the state of things I suspect that ER PPC's would be difficult to manage. I know that in my experiences PPC's/Large Lasers/ER Large Lasers were the ways to go.

[Donalbain]

Stradivarious, on 01 December 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

You've got yourself a barebones Marauder. Though I'm betting the weapons locations are off.

I run a similar build on my founder's Atlas and a RS I keep for when the other is locked out. Dual ER PPCs, Gauss Rifle with 40 rounds of ammo and 19DHS. In addition I have dual medium lasers as backups or additional firepower as needed. Essentially a slightly modified Marauder II since I can't mount jump jets. Very successful config as long as you know how to manage heat.

That exact loadout can also fit on a Cataphract D but runs really hot, downgrading the Gauss to an AC/5 helps a bit and fits more with canon.

In case I'm confusing you with the Marauder references, they are "unseen" 75 and 100 ton designs from the very beginning of BattleTech(where Mechwarrior comes from) that they(meaning PGI or anyone else for that matter) can't use the original graphic art due to copyright issues. Very famous and known for their dual heavy energy mounts with a decent ballistic sidecar.

Links to more info: Marauder I - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marauder
Marauder II - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marauder_II

Edit: Also for you clan fans, the Marauder is half of the basis for the Mad Cat, it's model number preface is MAD(as in MAD-3R for the stock 3025 version).

Interesting. This is my first Mechwarrior game so I'm pretty clueless about the lore. Very cool stuff though.

[Donalbain]

RocketDog, on 01 December 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

Sounds great and I'll give it a try. The Dragon is one mech I've really struggled with in terms of finding a good load out, but this fast sniper looks a good bet. Have you tried ERPPC for the extra range?

Yeah ER PPCs I just can't make work heat wise. The 90 min range on the PPCs isn't a huge penalty, with my speed it's easy enough to increase distance if most mediums/heavies/assaults get too close. Also the PPC's range is already pretty huge. 540m matches very closely to the Gauss's 660m. Also keep in mind that max range for the PPC is 1080m (1980m for the gauss), so you can still take pot shots at very long ranges (at pretty reduced damage).

[Donalbain]

Dagnome, on 01 December 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I noticed a few K-2's using the Gauss/PPC build quite effectively. I would think that you have very limited ammo for that gauss though.

Like the other poster said, if it is working for you then by all means keep on trucking my friend.

I would think 30 rounds would be very low for a double Gauss build, but for a single I very rarely run out. And in the rare cases I do, I still have a 20 damage alpha in the PPCs, enough to truck along anyway

[Shad0wsFury]

I run a similar loadout on a Cataphract D, plus two medium lasers and jump jets, but my speed is only 64kph.

The OP is right-on though, the 35 damage alpha is nice, and with double heat sinks you stay pretty cool firing two standard PPCs (you just can't go crazy and hold the fire button down).

[Xenophontis]

Stradivarious, on 01 December 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

You've got yourself a barebones Marauder. Though I'm betting the weapons locations are off.

I run a similar build on my founder's Atlas and a RS I keep for when the other is locked out. Dual ER PPCs, Gauss Rifle with 40 rounds of ammo and 19DHS. In addition I have dual medium lasers as backups or additional firepower as needed. Essentially a slightly modified Marauder II since I can't mount jump jets. Very successful config as long as you know how to manage heat.

That exact loadout can also fit on a Cataphract D but runs really hot, downgrading the Gauss to an AC/5 helps a bit and fits more with canon.

In case I'm confusing you with the Marauder references, they are "unseen" 75 and 100 ton designs from the very beginning of BattleTech(where Mechwarrior comes from) that they(meaning PGI or anyone else for that matter) can't use the original graphic art due to copyright issues. Very famous and known for their dual heavy energy mounts with a decent ballistic sidecar.

Links to more info: Marauder I - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marauder
Marauder II - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marauder_II

Edit: Also for you clan fans, the Marauder is half of the basis for the Mad Cat, it's model number preface is MAD(as in MAD-3R for the stock 3025 version).

IIRC Mad Cat = Marauder + Catapault

[Donalbain]

Shad0wsFury, on 01 December 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

I run a similar loadout on a Cataphract D, plus two medium lasers and jump jets, but my speed is only 64kph.

The OP is right-on though, the 35 damage alpha is nice, and with double heat sinks you stay pretty cool firing two standard PPCs (you just can't go crazy and hold the fire button down).

Just curious, and for any other similar mech loadouts as well, how many twin PPC shots can you do back to back without overheating? With my build I can do 5 double PPC shots. With the Gauss + double PPC alpha, I can do 6 back to back (due to waiting a bit longer for the Gauss to cycle). In reality I never get close to this much heat as there are few opportunities to fire back to back for 5-6 shots, but it's not bad at all for those times when you want to get some solid burst fire on a good target and then move away.

[Zero Neutral]

Indeed,

I enjoy double ER PPC and a Gauss on my founder's Atlas. It is definitely one way to dish out pain.

[MustrumRidcully]

The Cataphract actually has a variant that can use DUal Gauss + PPC. That's a med-to-long range 40-damage strike build.

It may be theoretically possible on a Catapult as well, but I think the extra 5 tons really help...


The problem with 2 PPCs is that the get too hot, and you can not really fit enough heat sinks to keep them cool. WIth a single PPC, you can get a long way with engine (double) heat sinks.

[Donalbain]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 December 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

The Cataphract actually has a variant that can use DUal Gauss + PPC. That's a med-to-long range 40-damage strike build.

It may be theoretically possible on a Catapult as well, but I think the extra 5 tons really help...


The problem with 2 PPCs is that the get too hot, and you can not really fit enough heat sinks to keep them cool. WIth a single PPC, you can get a long way with engine (double) heat sinks.

Of course 2 Gauss, 1 PPC will also shift the problem from heat to ammo, and the extra tonnage reduces room for speed and armor. But definitely another interesting alternative to the usual 2-gauss build, and definitely seems like a better deal for the 40 damage than the 4 PPC builds.

Edited by Donalbain, 01 December 2012 - 01:22 PM.

[OneEleven]

I was thinking about building Flame like that, since the hardpoint layout is symetrycally great, but my thought was to swap engine to smaller, say xl 255, maybe put a medlaser in each arm and increase armor. I think dragon may be ok with speed of 69kph. But i guess heat is gonna be a huge problem with the implemention of more weapons. So how do you think about making a slower yet bulkier long-range dragon?

[Fred013]

Donalbain, on 01 December 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

or the annoyingly ammo dependent, short range, and slower traveling 2x AC20 setup

How you put 2xAC/20 on a dragon???
0.o

[Escef]

For taking on other heavies, you're generally better off with twin AC5 than a gauss, you get better DPS. Plus you don't look as intimidating as you otherwise might, so assault pilots will be more prone to focus on someone other than you.

But the gauss is also THE sniper weapon, dealing more damage at greater range than any weapon currently available.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Donalbain, on 01 December 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

I've just discovered this awesome build for my Dragon, and it happens to work on all the variants. With 1 Gauss & 2 PPC, you can alpha for 35 damage, which as far as pinpoint snipe alphas go, is only second to the intolerably hot 4x PPC setup or the annoyingly ammo dependent, short range, and slower traveling 2x AC20 setup (both 40 damage).

I'm running this with Dual Heat Sinks (just 1 engine heat sink, 1.1 heat efficiency) and have Endo-Steel. I'm also using an XL300 engine which gets me up to a very respectable 81mph so that it's really easy to move to advantageous firing lines and move out of the bad spots. The Dragon has a huge center torso, and fairly hard to hit side torsos, so standard engine didn't really make sense to me, and this way I've got enough tonnage for both speed, firepower and a pretty respectable 271 armor, which is all maxed in center & side torsos and loses and bit on legs, arms and back.

The heat is really manageable, and I can pack 30 gauss rounds, so ammo management is not a problem. It also helps that PPCs and Gauss have the same travel speed so they are quite easy to aim together. What's also nice is that once you do have heating problems, you can switch to the Gauss only, or, if you have a moving target that you don't want to risk Gauss ammo on you can switch to single PPC shots, which really aren't that bad heat wise.

This has been working amazingly well for me, and pretty much always gets me in the top 3 in PUGs with usually around 400-800 damage done. What's nice is the damage is all focused so the Kills are often much higher than the damage would suggest.

Any critiques of this build? Any other mechs/variants that you think would run something like this better?

I run a 4 ppc catapult k2 with 17 dhs and a std 225 engine i have speedtweak so 62 kph and 540 range 40 damage alpha and 1.19 heatefficiency i can deal with stalkers and lrm boats everywhere lol.