38 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

My suggestion is to find a mech you have fun playing and don't worry about how much you are making. Money is just a means to an end and not the other way around as too many people think. It doesn't matter if you have 0 cbill or 1000000 cbills if you are playing the mechs you enjoy.

[Slayton]

Well, I removed the streaks. The results were lack luster. I'm running FF and endosteel w/max armor.

I lost and was awarded 80,000 C-bills
My repairs: 79,149 C-bills to repair a 72% health mech

Screen shot attached. I'm going to replace the XL engine now with a normal one. I'll repost with results if that drastically changes my C-bills.

[Scratx]

Slayton, on 01 December 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Well, I removed the streaks. The results were lack luster. I'm running FF and endosteel w/max armor.

I lost and was awarded 80,000 C-bills
My repairs: 79,149 C-bills to repair a 72% health mech

Screen shot attached. I'm going to replace the XL engine now with a normal one. I'll repost with results if that drastically changes my C-bills.

Remove Ferro-Fibrous, it's doubling your armor repair costs for next to no gain.

[Slayton]

Scratx, on 01 December 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Remove Ferro-Fibrous, it's doubling your armor repair costs for next to no gain.

Did this and removed the XL engine. The XL engine was about 60-70% of the repair cost. Ridiculous. Removing the FF took another 10k or so off. I'm down to 17-25k repairs. Much more reasonable, yet disappointing. XL engines are THAT much more expensive than normal engines. Maybe if they want it to stay as a more expensive option they could spread out the extra cost on a multitude of upgrades, not just one or two.

[Lefty Lucy]

Slayton, on 01 December 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Did this and removed the XL engine. The XL engine was about 60-70% of the repair cost. Ridiculous. Removing the FF took another 10k or so off. I'm down to 17-25k repairs. Much more reasonable, yet disappointing. XL engines are THAT much more expensive than normal engines. Maybe if they want it to stay as a more expensive option they could spread out the extra cost on a multitude of upgrades, not just one or two.

Basically: Jenner w/ XL=god mode, w/o XL=target practice. I'd keep the XL, as it should help you maintain performance-based bonuses better.

[LaserAngel]

Slayton, on 01 December 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Did this and removed the XL engine. The XL engine was about 60-70% of the repair cost. Ridiculous. Removing the FF took another 10k or so off. I'm down to 17-25k repairs. Much more reasonable, yet disappointing. XL engines are THAT much more expensive than normal engines. Maybe if they want it to stay as a more expensive option they could spread out the extra cost on a multitude of upgrades, not just one or two.

x4 the price, half the tonnage, and more vulnerable due to the side torso slots. The XL engine is really only viable, if you want to keep making C-bills from a death and loss, if you're running premium. I don't run my Awesome 9M with the XL 385 just for that reason. You'll see me in my Awesome 8Q or my Swayback 4P to make C-Bills. I have them mastered though so I don't have to worry about getting XP anymore.

Edited by LaserAngel, 01 December 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[Duncan Fisher]

You can make bank pugging in a Jenner with xl300. Just learn how to stay alive! Never commit to an engagement that you don't know for sure you can win, and use that speed to get away when the big guns show up! Most important, when you know your team is going to lose (usually once you are down by 3 or 4 kills), just hide. Sometimes your dead teammates will ***** at you in the chat when you're last mech alive, but who cares what they think, you're just playing smart. If you don't want to pay repair costs, don't throw your mech away for nothing. Most enemies would rather cap than hunt down a fast Jenner.

[Mr 144]

Jade Kitsune, on 01 December 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

DDO makes it so to play other missions I may want to play I have to pay extra.

You still play? I'm guessing Khyber

Mr 144

[Krodah]

Slayton, on 01 December 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Did this and removed the XL engine. The XL engine was about 60-70% of the repair cost. Ridiculous. Removing the FF took another 10k or so off. I'm down to 17-25k repairs. Much more reasonable, yet disappointing. XL engines are THAT much more expensive than normal engines. Maybe if they want it to stay as a more expensive option they could spread out the extra cost on a multitude of upgrades, not just one or two.

I run with XL engine, DHS, and Endo structure and repairs are cheap. If I got with FF armor it gets too expensive for a farming mech.

If I get rid of the XL engine, I wind up dying a lot sooner and it lowers my performance bonuses. Once they fix the lagshield, I might have to reevaulate, but I definitely make more with an XL engine than without on my Jenner.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Mr 144, on 01 December 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

You still play? I'm guessing Khyber

Mr 144

Always Khyber. Always.

[Corvus Antaka]

XL engines are gimped enough. I think just normalizing their repair bill with normal engines would make them a lot more fun to use. As it is now I have 1 mech that needs/uses an excel engine, and it is a long range sniper. Otherwise the standard engine is almost always the better choice just for the survivability it gives imho.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Vlar 300XL, like I said before, is just about the awesomest thing there is in the Inner Sphere... it's weight, speed, HS's, compatibility... -> I love it. Also, there's a reason ComStar may or may not have a warehouse stuffed full of these things, locked-up just in case of a rainy day

They aren't exacly over-the-shelf Items right now in 3049, though, especially to lower-rankers and private mercenaries just trying to make a living, but Loreishness aside... I don't think we need them to be cheap, or affordable right now. In previous months when the game had fewer features, everybody who wanted to save weight clamored over the XL engines. Now we have alternative ways to save weight, such as endosteel and converting to DHS, that don't add significantly toward our match-to-match operating costs. To me, personally, the XL engine is for when you are trying to squeeze the absolute most weight you can possibly get out of someting and put it toward either more weapons or a bigger engine.

BattleTech has tendency for linear changes in performance to be matched with exponentional rates of penalty/impedence. I think that the XL Engines are way out on the end of the spectrum where you're dabbling in high-risk tradeoffs with compounded risks. Lower-risk, less rewarding items such as ES and DHS should be used first, then only try the crazy expensive stuff if you're going all-out.

It's kind of like LRMs - normal LRMs plus a TAG system are brutal and much cheaper than Atremis-buffed missiles, but if you really, really want that extra pizzazz... that "one more boost..." it's gonna cost you significantly. Artemis missiles are very expensive for a reason... they're awesome, and they give you a big boost (with that classic[,] BattleTech slightly-bigger cost increase).

XL engines, I think, are best for when you are willing to lose money on a match, as if your Unit is fighting over a key piece of territory, or you dont mind running at a loss this match. I only use them for training myself how to fight guerilla-style and hit-and-run without dying in a match. I don't use them for general assaults because I think it's a waste of expensive Tech to throw at a random brawl.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 01 December 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[Shock Wave]

As you can see by this post I'm a founder. With this being said I run the Jenner on a regular basis, and while it does have an xl engine, FF armor, ES internals, and DHS I find that I still make quite alot after a match. Even in those matches where I'm torn to shreds I still earn a descent amount of c-bills. I realize I make 25% more with the founders mech but I don't see how it can make THAT huge of a difference. When repairing I don't re-arm and I find that saves about 14,000 c-bills in repair costs. I also make sure I hit every target I can to ensure the 2,000 bonus you get with each kill. When I add that to several of the spotting assists I get in each match this adds up to a nice chunck of change to help with repairs. I realize repairing a high end jenner is expensive, but all those high end components really do make the difference between life and death.

OH, and one more thing, know when it's time to get the hell out of dodge and hide in a hole. If your team is getting hammered 0-6 and the last two mechs on your side is you in a Jenner and an LRM cat.... save yourself some greif and a repair bill. Punch it into high gear, escape if you can, and power down. DON'T listen to those chuckle heads who are already dead and throw yourself into the meat grinder.

[Sirous]

Slayton, on 01 December 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Well, I removed the streaks. The results were lack luster. I'm running FF and endosteel w/max armor.

I lost and was awarded 80,000 C-bills
My repairs: 79,149 C-bills to repair a 72% health mech

Screen shot attached. I'm going to replace the XL engine now with a normal one. I'll repost with results if that drastically changes my C-bills.

Engine got Cored there, hence the 45k rearm on 'Items'
FF and Endo are also more expensive to repair, it seems. So you were running three of the most expensive things. XL, Endo and FF. Not quite a money making machine.
That's nothing wait till you start running an LRM boat with Artemis and watch those repair/rearm bills be double that in a bad loss.

I have found the two mechs that earn the most for me thus far are the Hunchback and K2 Cat with Lasers and PPC's
Even with the XL in the Cat, was normally only paying 50k on bad losses and next to nothing on wins. Hunchback same way even when cored repair bills rarely topped out over 40k.

On to the original point of the post, end of match c-bill rewards should be higher than what they currently are.

[Volume]

While there are some very insightful suggestions in this thread, I must point out that they are all work-arounds or bandaid fixes to the problem at hand: The player has a cool 'mech and wants to be able to use it.

This reminds me of WoT where maybe 1 in every 10 battles you can use your Tier X tanks due to the extreme costs of repairs and ammunition. Obviously, DHS/Endo/FF/XL-Engines will increase repair costs, and streak ammo is more expensive than most other ammo, but despite this, I do feel that the economy needs tweaking (or a revamp), starting with giving players more choices. Forcing them to do matches in trial 'mechs doesn't exactly do wonders for player retention.

[Seijin Dinger]

I seem to still make money even when I get tore up and lose LOTS of components, and I run an XL 245.
Please before you point out the founder image, note that I have not clicked the activate button so I am currently not receiving the bonus from that

[CoolLew]

LaserAngel, on 01 December 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Frankly, XL engines and Ferro-fibrous armor on the only components that dramatically increase repair costs. One would think Endo Steel would but it does not. It might be bugged on FF armor. I hope that is resolved sooner than later. It is much more effective to take Endo Steel right now.

I have the same problem as the OP.
I suck, so I die a lot, and I have high repair bills. Unless I win a match, I actually loose money in every battle. I have even considered going to to trial mechs just to save on repair cost, when I am trying to grind c-bills.

So it is really cheaper to not do any of the upgrades, like FF armor, XL engines, Endo Steel, how about double heat sinks, can they get damaged?
how can you tell what specific components cost to be fixed?

[ElLocoMarko]

It won't make much difference, but consider moving your ammunition into your legs. When I turned off auto-repair I started to notice that my re-arm bill was usually maxed (28k) on losses even if I didn't shoot that much. I had left my ammo in the torso (default of the build I was in) Crit'd ammo is all gone. More importantly, I was losing the torso containing the ammo.

I can't remember the last time I legged a Jenner. I have a hunchback running and 76 and nobody ever shoots my legs. Especially now that LRM's are obsolete.

Moving the ammo to the legs helped A LITTLE. I went from perhaps 28k ammo rearm to 21k. I also started living longer so it was (in my opinion) a totally good build idea.

But real cash came from the energy mech. But make sure that the battles are still fun. I can't seem to do anything with lasers except drunkenly **** all over the target. (I like the heat trails that show me how bad my aim is)

[PANZERBUNNY]

Your perspective on XL engines is what is skewed.

They aren't the logical step in leveling up your mech, so to speak. They aren't a component you should be using in all your mechs for every drop.

If you start losing, it's going to cost you.

This isn't news. This is the harsh reality of advanced tech in this game and shouldn't be watered down so you can joy ride your pimped out rigs with immunity.