23 replies to this topic

[Secundus]

I'm predicting that when the 8 v 8 battles are implemented some of players that are looking for the glory days of logging on a TS, joining up with a group of randoms and going into battle for financial success are going to be in for a surprise when their win rates plummet to 50% or lower. When these random 8 man pre-made groups start regularly meeting up with well coordinated clans that have enough saved up Cbills to be going into battle with all the bells and whistles equipped we'll start to see some new complaints about the economy, or the randoms will be favoring 4 man groups as they will likely be able to influence a win better. I'm sure most clans that have enough money that they are now playing for the challenge rather than the progress will enjoy the new 8 v 8 battles, but those that were doing it to avoid losses will be changing their tune.

Edited by Secundus, 01 December 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[Sears]

I'm quite looking forward to the 8v8 and the increased challenge. Losing is losing, but it's a lot more enjoyable to play against another coordinated team. If you enjoy mech collecting then perhaps you wouldn't like it so much. But if challenge and tactics is what float your boat then it should be an improvement.

I just hope in an 8 man team you can still pilot your favourite mech and not be forced into piloting something else, just to guarantee a win.

Edited by Sears, 01 December 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[Dagger6T6]

yeah and what is my win rate now? it's been in steady decline due to an increase in pugging with Mechwarriors that have no business being from out behind a desk.

groups want 8v8 so they know who they are going into battle with, and they coordinate the whole team and not have 4 lone wolves be cannon fodder. despite what most pugs think... organized groups really have no interest in steamrolling virtually inanimate mechs that can't get out of their own way.

the groups are looking for tactical organized play, most of the hardcore 4 mans already have so many cbills and mechs it's not even about the money... in fact it ceased to be about the money after the first few weeks

[Chiron]

I think 8v8 will bring a better game experience, regardless of the economic changes.

Losing to a equally skilled opponent has ALWAYS been more enjoyable than stomping a noob, at least for myself.

Edited by chiron, 01 December 2012 - 07:57 PM.

[River Walker]

Yip as a puger I will be vary happy to see team on team play. That how it should have been right at the start of OB.
Ones it happens the user base will grow because its not getting Kill off by farming team players.
New player will learn how to play and build up to Play Team on Team when thy are ready to do so.
My bit is that 4 team player will be logging on more that 8 team player because of the pug player to look for new member to fill out the ranks.

[Namwons]

i wish we had 8v8v8 map...now that would be fun

[Shiney]

I don't care about how many wins I have, I just want to UP the skill base I'm playing against and reduced foolish play on my team

[Lokust Davion]

I'm confident that my 8 man team will win more than they lose, so I'm not worried about the economy at all. I'm very excited as this premade 8v8 system would be a great place to gain respect by showcasing your merc unit's skill & expertise.

Namwons, on 01 December 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

i wish we had 8v8v8 map...now that would be fun

A threesome is always fun

[Jeff K Notagoon]

I predict a lot of facing the same 1 or 2 teams over and over and over again becuase there aren't enough people playing to actually support a 8v8 queue

[Taizan]

Your prediction may be right for the second matchmaking phase, but that will change as soon as ranking comes into play with the third phase of MM, so its only temporary anyway, just like 4-man group + 4 pugs. I expect the whining though to be like its set in stone for eternity.
Maybe its time that some of the 8-man teams that were used to *pugstomping*, as they like to refer to it, are getting a bloody nose from someone of their own caliber or perhaps they can actually prove that they are teamplay gods, not only in their perception.

[Secundus]

Taizan, on 01 December 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Your prediction may be right for the second matchmaking phase, but that will change as soon as ranking comes into play with the third phase of MM, so its only temporary anyway, just like 4-man group + 4 pugs. I expect the whining though to be like its set in stone for eternity.
Maybe its time that some of the 8-man teams that were used to *pugstomping*, as they like to refer to it, are getting a bloody nose from someone of their own caliber or perhaps they can actually prove that they are teamplay gods, not only in their perception.

When ranking takes place I predict we'll then see long wait queues for games of higher skilled people unless the ELO system still allows them to play against and crush lesser skilled teams. Tribes Ascend has ELO and being one of the higher ranking folks I would sometimes end up in a 1 v 1 match when my friends in the lower ranks were in filled 32 players servers.

[Khobai]

8v8 without matchmaking will just be stupid. All it does is ensure that half the mech chassis will never be used. No one is gonna play a slow medium in an 8v8 for example.

[Vlad Ward]

Why do I care about winning again? I have all the c-bills and XP I'll ever need.

Playing in a team against other teams is just more fun.

[Secundus]

Vlad Ward, on 01 December 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

Why do I care about winning again? I have all the c-bills and XP I'll ever need.

Playing in a team against other teams is just more fun.

I already addressed that in the first post if you had bothered to read past the title.

[Vlad Ward]

Secundus, on 01 December 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

I already addressed that in the first post if you had bothered to read past the title.

Too much work for so little content.

If these pseudo-mythical pug-farming boogeymen who sit around and use pugs to grind c-bills out of anything other than sheer boredom at a lack of proper 8v8 play really do exist, they're not going to be significant.

[Vermaxx]

Don't hold your collective breath for elo or anything more advanced than phase 2 for a while. They claim it's temporary but the info on phase 3 is pretty...nonexistent.

If anything more advanced than phase 2 shows up before mystical community warfare, i'll run around without armor in the biggest headbox mech I can find as punishment.

And yes, there will be plenty of "teams" who downgrade from the idea of 8 man to dedicated 4 man just to keep winning more often.

[Taizan]

Secundus, on 01 December 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

When ranking takes place I predict we'll then see long wait queues for games of higher skilled people unless the ELO system still allows them to play against and crush lesser skilled teams. Tribes Ascend has ELO and being one of the higher ranking folks I would sometimes end up in a 1 v 1 match when my friends in the lower ranks were in filled 32 players servers.

Hmm don't know about your prediction based based on how it is in Tribes:A. LoL uses ELO ranking as well and afaik it works for setting up random teams in ranked matches. http://leagueoflegen...o_rating_system

It heavily depends on how the system in MWO is implemented and which additional factors are taken into account. For example for custom matches they could have an average ranking active of all 8 members of a team. Furthermore if there are brackets, how these are set up and if / how fast ELO decay is active.

Still I'm also looking forward to this final phase of MM and see the current steps as pure metric gathering to do prior simulations of the ranking system, which makes absolute sense to me.

Currently the only info we have to speculate on is:

Quote

Phase 3: December TBD
Full implementation of our modified ELO matchmaking solution. Details forthcoming.

Edited by Taizan, 01 December 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[HlynkaCG]

Seeing as it was the prospect of tactical/competative teamplay that drew me into this game in the first place...

No, i will not be looking back.

[Lin Shai]

Secundus, on 01 December 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

I'm predicting that when the 8 v 8 battles are implemented some of players that are looking for the glory days of logging on a TS, joining up with a group of randoms and going into battle for financial success are going to be in for a surprise when their win rates plummet to 50% or lower. When these random 8 man pre-made groups start regularly meeting up with well coordinated clans that have enough saved up Cbills to be going into battle with all the bells and whistles equipped we'll start to see some new complaints about the economy, or the randoms will be favoring 4 man groups as they will likely be able to influence a win better. I'm sure most clans that have enough money that they are now playing for the challenge rather than the progress will enjoy the new 8 v 8 battles, but those that were doing it to avoid losses will be changing their tune.

Being someone who PUGed for about a month in CB then did the "pre-made" thing when it was available ... I agree and disagree at the same time. I think you're generalizing which is always dangerous.

As it is, there's a ton of people who are basically "PUGs with microphones". That's the way things have evolved with MWO having no working matchmaker, no real social interface, etc and public TS3 servers.

There are a few "serious" merc corps ... but hey're in the minority as much as TS3 teams are compared to PUGs (regardless of what bad PUG players will tell you).

A lot of us "PUGs with microphones" ... simply want to play MWO with and against other people who aren't going to DC, suicide, Rambo off, etc. That's been the case since they introduced grouping. I personally could care less about my win/loss if I'm winning or losing solely because my team succeeded or failed. That's a challenge, and they're good matches.

That being said, there's of course going to be people who aren't very good at the game but because of PGI's failure to create any sort of reasonable matchmaking ... are not going to enjoy 8v8 because they can't stomp on even worse players who are PUGing and not communicating or coordinating. Those are the ones that will be dropping as 4-mans to continue beating up on the fat kid in gym class

Of course, there's also the third class of players that does like the 8v8 but if they're not winning ... won't be able to afford it if they're not buying premium time, since you'll no longer be winning 90% of you matches as a "pre-made". They'll also be dropping 4-man to farm C-Bills off PUGers.

Basically, the whole thing is a cluster-^*&%

[Kobold]

Lin Shai, on 01 December 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Basically, the whole thing is a cluster-^*&%

Story of MWO.