52 replies to this topic

[Sug]

I agree they are a bit too "swirly", but the LRMs in each video look pretty much the same to me.


In the first trailer the only LRMs I saw were at 0:39. You can see on the HUD that they were fired and are reloading.

The rest of the missiles fired in the video are SRMs. All under the minimum range of LRMs. Those missiles had a kinda arched flight path.

Correct me if i'm wrong : /

Edited by Sug, 10 May 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[Varjen]

Just a thought about missiles and smoke.

As someone already noted in another thread, smoke is a lag demon of ye olden times. The more smoke you put in the game the more you risk making it choppy. And personally id rather have smooth than smokey. But thats me.

Another thing is the gamemechanics of missiles. As an old tabletop buff i would love to see them as the fire and forget dumb rockets they are but one have to realize just how much work that would have to go into that. All the missiles would have to be tracked individually until they hit something and this info correctly relayed to everyone that can percieve them. This is no small task considering just for arguments sake that we have 6 Catapults on the field duking it out.
Thats a whooole lot of objects to track...

The easy solution is to have the lock and shoot mechanism instead, then the game already knows who will be hit and what the damage will be. The rest is just cosmetics and a pretty fireworks show for the rest of us.

[Chembot]

I reckon the missles showed in the new video behave like Swarm LRM's.. They have a slower burning propellant which allows the missile greater maneuverability and thus it's ability to lock onto a secondary target should it miss the primary (as per the TT rules).

I'm a fan of staggered missile flight for standard LRM's much like it's shown in MW:LL or MW2, with a gradual arc, and an accelerating flight time from the launch tube.. Slower from launch and it increases in speed as it homes in.

So Dev's, keep those swarmy LRM's for the actucal 'Swarm LRM's'

[geck0 icaza]

The "swirly" flight pattern was the thing I was referring to. I realize the that the atlas had the staggered launch, but was mostly referring to the fact that it looked like it took a step backwards. The first one had more smoke trail and very minimal swerve to the moment. It was quite elegant. The new ones look like you shook up some bees and let them out and said "go get'em".

I know im just nit picking at this point but I wanted to see what other thought of it. I fell in love with the first LRM's that were shown, it would be a shame to loose them before I got a chance to fire'em.

Edited by geck0 icaza, 11 May 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[Siilk]

To me, MWLL LRMs are the best ones, both aesthetic- and gameplay-wise.

[Victor Morson]

The difference is they are all launching in a stream, but then swirling together and landing in a huge cluster. I do have a theory as to why though, outside of just random tweaking: Artemis IV.

We know it's going to be a launch system or close to it (Dev Answers 1); the fact that the missiles get into a much tighter cluster before hitting would be extremely consistent with an improved targeting system.

[LordDeathStrike]

theres nothing off, the atlas is fireing its lrm 20 (broken down into 2 10 packs 1 on each shoulder area) and the catapult is fireing its lrm 15 arms.

the only difference is the atlas had direct lock, the catapult was fireing at narc/c3 lock, it didnt directly lock on to the target itself, it just shot off its lrms, and them homed into the marked target, while the atlas was fireing direct locked lrms, which go towards target right off the bat instead of aquireing after launch.

geck0 icaza, on 10 May 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

The "swirly" flight pattern was the thing I was referring to. I realize the that the atlas had the staggered launch, but was mostly referring to the fact that it looked like it took a step backwards. The first one had more smoke trail and very minimal swerve to the moment. It was quite elegant. The new ones look like you shook up some bees and let them out and said "go get'em".

I know im just nit picking at this point but I wanted to see what other thought of it. I feel in love with the first LRM's that were shown, it would be a shame to loose them before I got a chance to fire'em.

read ma post, i explains it good

[pesco]

FWIW I thought the same thing as OP: The LRM shots in that video look a bit too swirly, a bit too much like fireflies. Maybe it should be toned down a bit. Then again, maybe we're missing something...

Just my two cents.

[Jadel Blade]

I really don't like the LRM's in the videos so far. As a fair few people said they are way to swirly, they look more like darts than missiles. I would like to see a much more solid trajectory along with the requested smoke trails. Also possibly, they could be larger individually, though I'm not so sure about that.

I also hope that there is an appropriately powerful sound effect associated with the launch. And for all weapons for that matter.

While I appreciate the concept that it's only a beta I would say that it's probably the best time to make these comments as it gives the devs a chance to assess and possibly change the effect if they agree.

[Trevnor]

I'm just going to point something out that nobody else as seem to picked up on. What if the missile swarming is to help them be harder to hit against a Anti-missile system? Anti-missile systems have been on a lot of canon 'mechs, and it only makes sense for the missile manufacturers to want to make their missiles harder to hit. Also, a lot of times in the novels, missiles are described as a swarm. Just a few points to look at.

[Stormeris]

I actually like this new swarm missile look , it reminds me of murders of crows swarming about a dying animal, or a cloud of locusts flying towards the fields. Although the smoke trail could be more noticable, it's too transparant at the moment

[Kaemon]

Lt Trevnor, on 11 May 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

I'm just going to point something out that nobody else as seem to picked up on. What if the missile swarming is to help them be harder to hit against a Anti-missile system? Anti-missile systems have been on a lot of canon 'mechs, and it only makes sense for the missile manufacturers to want to make their missiles harder to hit. Also, a lot of times in the novels, missiles are described as a swarm. Just a few points to look at.

anti-missle systems, Artemis IV or not, that makes no difference in the visuals of the missiles, that's purely for the player, and yes we understand the difference in SRM and LRMs, I'm talking more about the apex of the missile path, where it looks more like a particle fountain effect (which is making me crazy because I've seen it somewhere before but can't put my finger on it).

I would like to see different missile behavior (eventually) dependent on modules you have equipped (so hopefully we get AOE, bunch landing and what not) but the graphics we're seeing right now (IMO) do not improve upon anything that's already been done.

MW:LL (sans the rainbow streams) have direct, in your face streak missiles, which I like for the SRMs, I would like the LRMs to be a bit more controlled, if they want them to swirl as they approach the target (which makes sense for anti missile systems, but you're not going to start wasting propellant 400M away from your target if their anti-missile system has a range of sub 150m, that makes no sense).

Plus as I stated, some of the missiles (due to their sidways movement) seem to have to wait for others to catch up, which gives it the jumpy/fountain effect I am not fond of.

Edited by Kaemon, 11 May 2012 - 04:30 AM.

[FaustianQ]

I'd actually prefer the "swarmy" missiles due to AMS. Coming in dense packs may look cool but it also makes an AMS's job that much easier. Further, the swarmy behavior may improve ECMs ability to also prevent lock or even outright damage (they never cluster back up).

[Naduk]

Varjen, on 10 May 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

As someone already noted in another thread, smoke is a lag demon of ye olden times. The more smoke you put in the game the more you risk making it choppy. And personally id rather have smooth than smokey. But thats me.

that's one huge massive load of garbage right there
play battlefield 3, it doesn't take long for the smoke from burning tanks and explosions, smoke grenades, missiles, dust and all other sorts of air polluting debris to hang around and start making it hard to see over an entire level
sometimes the smoke is so thick you literally cannot see 2m in front of yourself, but the game doesn't lag at all

if they can manage 64 players running around a huge level all launching smoke or explosions everywhere AND have it cause persistent effects then it will be 1000% manageable for PGI and their 24 players

even if every player in the game took a catapult with extra missiles and fired them about the same area, the game/engine would have no issues

only time you will struggle is if your running hardware to far below the recommended

Edited by Naduk, 11 May 2012 - 05:46 AM.

[Naqel]

They look odd cause that's not how you fire missiles.

They should be launched one-by-one over a short period, not all at the same time.

Launching all together risks mid-air colisions, and looks silly.

[Aegis Kleais]

It's understandable that the game's visuals/audio will progress through the game's development.

Though I'd have to experience it first hand to both see how they fire and hear it as well, I can only currently make an assumption on the LRMs based on the most recent videos (which, as always, may not be a good indicator since it is an alpha/beta product)

But when fired, I hope they give a whooshing sound effect as they scream out of their salvos and leave a much more finite smoke trail. One of the immersion-breaking effects is when a smoke trail dissipates and you watch it run like a snake from the least recent puff to the most recent.

I would love to see if the smoke's dissipation was randomized. Not only in dissipation but in smoke particle size, and it's unilateral drifting direction. Lasers and Ballistics have their own visual presence; I'm just hoping that missiles get something that doesn't make them look whispy.

[StandingCow]

Naqel, on 11 May 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

They look odd cause that's not how you fire missiles.

They should be launched one-by-one over a short period, not all at the same time.

Launching all together risks mid-air colisions, and looks silly.

That is how missiles in the MW universe are fired.

[Threat Doc]

I agree, it's pre-beta, so tweaking will continue. However, if the devs are reading here, perhaps something between the first video in the OP and the second. I love how they 'bloom' outwards and upwards, and then back in toward the target. I'm not sure what all goes into making the missiles do what they do, but beyond the differences of how they look between the first and second videos in the OP, I think these have the best 'feel' to them I've ever seen.

[Black Mamba]

Perhaps constrict a little bit on how it "swarms outwards" and add much more noticeable smoke trails, currently you can barely see them.

[Ralkir]

Personally, if I have a target lock I'd rather see the missles take a nice smooth arc to target. Right now they are just a little too "dancey" in the air, but that's my own personal taste and it's not going to turn me off from the game or anything like that.

Personally, I think the missiles shouldn't be dancing, but the mechwarrior should be able to dance the Carlton on top of his catapult as he unleashes his barrage

Edited by Whiskey 423, 11 May 2012 - 06:31 AM.