10 replies to this topic

[MrCondor]

Hey guys, i just got the ferro armor upgrade but i want to try something new with my mech and i need the spots its taking up. Do I have to pay the 170k to switch back to regular armor even though the mechlab says i own all the armor units for it? Is there a way to switch back manually without havign to pay and will i have to pay yet another 600k to switch back to ferro armor if i choose too? Also since i own units of ferro armor, if I buy another mech will those be available to use or is the ferro armor tied to the mech i bought it with?

[Chief 117]

Yes, it is stupid but you have to pay the full price whenever you want to switch, regadless if you had the armour or not

[IG 88]

you have to go in the upgrade menu and pay to switch back to standard armor

[XtremeLord]

and thats a fun part, i guess

[Zero Neutral]

MrCondor, on 02 December 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Hey guys, i just got the ferro armor upgrade but i want to try something new with my mech and i need the spots its taking up. Do I have to pay the 170k to switch back to regular armor even though the mechlab says i own all the armor units for it? Is there a way to switch back manually without havign to pay and will i have to pay yet another 600k to switch back to ferro armor if i choose too? Also since i own units of ferro armor, if I buy another mech will those be available to use or is the ferro armor tied to the mech i bought it with?

You need to pay to re-attach standard armor.

You must pay the cost to switch back to Ferro-Fibrous Armor.

If you buy another mech then you must purchase Ferro-Firbrous Armor for that mech as well.

[MrCondor]

sounds like that chould be a future change for this game, i mean if u own an item u should be able to equip it to anything u buy (obv you need more units if u want multiple mechs with a certain thing but come on ) if i own X units of ferro armor and i buy a X type mech i shoulndt have to buy armor for that if i already own the armor to equip it with

anway thx for the quick reply, probally should ask before i bought the ferro stuff

[John Norad]

Yes, it costs credits every time you install or deinstall any upgrade.
Yet it costs nothing to change reactors, weapons or ammo.
Go figure!

Tbh, there should be separate costs for purchasing and modifying.
And instead of charging ridiculous amounts of cbills for some changes and nothing for others, there should be base prices for all modification, some as low as 10k, some higher, depending on the complexity.

[JPsi]

Yes, it costs C-bills to switch back. Reccomendation : Do it anyway, You'll save coin in the long run.

FF has a stupidly high upkeep cost and is considered a bad choice by most players here except in a few specific cases. If you're a new player (which you appear to be, apologies if you aren't) expect to have difficulty breaking even while using it.

Edited by JPsi, 02 December 2012 - 07:00 AM.

[Zerbob]

Consider the price you pay to switch upgrades (i.e. Standard Armor -> Ferro-Fibrous, Single Heat Sinks -> Double Heat Sinks, etc) as both parts and labour. The reason for this is to create money sinks. It is important for any game that has some level of a virtual economy for there to be money sinks. Why is this? To help prevent inflation, or more specifically the devaluing of virtual cash. There needs to be both money generated and money consumed or things don't work.

Let us compare two MMOs that have had drastically different outcomes with their economies several years after release, Guild Wars and EVE Online (both MMOs I've loved and played for years).

Guild Wars when it came out had a fairly balanced economy. Prices weren't too high but at the same time people weren't super rich. There were a few ways to make good gold, but few people knew them and most people were more interested in playing through the game to finish the story and get to the max level. However this game has effectively no money sinks. Items of value are rarely destroyed and instead sit in storage. Over time people started to learn the tricks to make lots of money and inflation rose. A valuable item at one point would cost 20 Platinum but over time that price rose to 100 Platinum, which was a fairly large sum of money for the average player. The Sword of Goblin Slaying you used to own which has the exact same stats as the Shiny Sword of Popularity was now worth next to nothing in comparison. Items became expensive because they looked pretty or were new content. It became quite ridiculous.

Now let us look at EVE Online. EVE is an incredibly complex game and has the only stable, functioning virtual economy in the world. It's so realistic that economists use it to study market habits (CCP, the game's developer actually has an economist on staff to constantly monitor the market to make sure things keep in check). Now why does this economy work, several years after the game's release? Money sinks, and lots of them. Yes in recent expansions there has been a rise in inflation, but things are still quite manageable for the average joe, and here's why. Miner Bob goes and mines 1 million units of Shiny Rocks and sells them on the market. Builder Fred takes those Shiny Rocks and combines them with Whatchamacallits to build Shiny Spaceship 2000. Fighter George buys the Shiny Spaceship 2000 and heads off to war...where he is promptly blown up. What is important is that where in many MMOs you get a temporary debuff, or have to pay a small amount of gold to respawn, in EVE Online when your ship is destroyed, it's just that: destroyed. There is some salvage left over, but other than the contents of your cargo bay, as much as 90% of the value of the ship is gone forever.

In short, MWO has these little fees to make sure that prices can stay low and that the average player can actually afford them.

Edited by Zerbob, 02 December 2012 - 07:02 AM.

[MrCondor]

Zerbob, on 02 December 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Consider the price you pay to switch upgrades (i.e. Standard Armor -> Ferro-Fibrous, Single Heat Sinks -> Double Heat Sinks, etc) as both parts and labour. The reason for this is to create money sinks. It is important for any game that has some level of a virtual economy for there to be money sinks. Why is this? To help prevent inflation, or more specifically the devaluing of virtual cash. There needs to be both money generated and money consumed or things don't work.

Let us compare two MMOs that have had drastically different outcomes with their economies several years after release, Guild Wars and EVE Online (both MMOs I've loved and played for years).

Guild Wars when it came out had a fairly balanced economy. Prices weren't too high but at the same time people weren't super rich. There were a few ways to make good gold, but few people knew them and most people were more interested in playing through the game to finish the story and get to the max level. However this game has effectively no money sinks. Items of value are rarely destroyed and instead sit in storage. Over time people started to learn the tricks to make lots of money and inflation rose. A valuable item at one point would cost 20 Platinum but over time that price rose to 100 Platinum, which was a fairly large sum of money for the average player. The Sword of Goblin Slaying you used to own which has the exact same stats as the Shiny Sword of Popularity was now worth next to nothing in comparison. Items became expensive because they looked pretty or were new content. It became quite ridiculous.

Now let us look at EVE Online. EVE is an incredibly complex game and has the only stable, functioning virtual economy in the world. It's so realistic that economists use it to study market habits (CCP, the game's developer actually has an economist on staff to constantly monitor the market to make sure things keep in check). Now why does this economy work, several years after the game's release? Money sinks, and lots of them. Yes in recent expansions there has been a rise in inflation, but things are still quite manageable for the average joe, and here's why. Miner Bob goes and mines 1 million units of Shiny Rocks and sells them on the market. Builder Fred takes those Shiny Rocks and combines them with Whatchamacallits to build Shiny Spaceship 2000. Fighter George buys the Shiny Spaceship 2000 and heads off to war...where he is promptly blown up. What is important is that where in many MMOs you get a temporary debuff, or have to pay a small amount of gold to respawn, in EVE Online when your ship is destroyed, it's just that: destroyed. There is some salvage left over, but other than the contents of your cargo bay, as much as 90% of the value of the ship is gone forever.

In short, MWO has these little fees to make sure that prices can stay low and that the average player can actually afford them.

Ill name my next mech shiny spaceship 2000 to honor your awesomness, however i wanna try to counter your money sink argument. If i have 400 units of armor sitting in my depo and they dont say "this armor only fits x mech" do you not think i should be able to use it? i guess flavor wise it would make sence no?

quick edit: @ JPSI your right about the upkeep cost of FF yuck switch back and now im actually making money lol

Edited by MrCondor, 02 December 2012 - 07:19 AM.

[Anjin]

Zerbob, on 02 December 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Consider the price you pay to switch upgrades (i.e. Standard Armor -> Ferro-Fibrous, Single Heat Sinks -> Double Heat Sinks, etc) as both parts and labour. The reason for this is to create money sinks. It is important for any game that has some level of a virtual economy for there to be money sinks. Why is this? To help prevent inflation, or more specifically the devaluing of virtual cash. There needs to be both money generated and money consumed or things don't work.

But there's an easy counter-point to this argument. It doesn't cost anything other than purchasing the parts to change out ANYTHING other than the stuff under the "Upgrades" tab. Switch my 260 SFE to a 260XL? Just the cost of the engine. Oh, I decide I don't like dying to side torsos blowing out? Oh, hey, I still have that SFE 260, and now it costs NOTHING to switch back. Don't like the ML's in my Jenner? Pay for some Small,s switch over. Decide I want to go to half MLs, half SLs? Oh look, there's the MLs still sitting in my inventory.

But oh, I want to switch to DHS. Okay, paid for the change. Oh, now I have to buy extras too. Okay, that's not terrible. Wait, I can't get enough DHS mounted to have an equivalent heat efficiency as I did when I had SHS? Well, crap, I need to switch back. Hmm, I have to pay AGAIN to go back? Why?

It's an issue of consistency. For engines, especially, in my opinion. Also, the way the system works now, it's essentially impossible to test out some design changes without paying for these "upgrades", then discovering that your brilliant plan doesn't work after all, and you had to pay to undo everything.

I've not personally run into any of these issues, but I see where the muttering is coming from.