9 replies to this topic

[Nusuth]

Greetz,

I'm an old-time mouse/keyb player. But for immersion I feel that for this game i need to get myself a joystick.
Whilst reading the
- 'what joystick'-topic : http://mwomercs.com/...bout-joysticks/
- 'best joystick'-topic : http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/1010-best-joystick-to-use-for-the-game/
- 'mouse vs joystick'-top : http://mwomercs.com/...nsole-gamepads/

I found myself a bit intimidated by the amount of buttons&switches&thingies on joysticks. I realized i have no clue on how to use these properly.

So I was wondering if the community could share me some insights on this by giving a quick rundown on your brand of joystick & how you use it.

I know that the final fine-tuning will come down on personal taste&feeling. but i'm sure that reading up on your vision of the big picture on 'how to use that thing' will proove usefull for me to becoming a better pilot and foremost will guide me on which joystick to buy.

To get this topic started i took the liberty to quote Rocketman from one of the threads mentioned above :

Quote

For my left hand, there is nothing that even comes close to the Pro Throttle. I use the index finger for the front/back movement, the middle and second middle finger buttons for strafing left/right and the pinky button for jumping, Then you've got three (three!) hat swiches for your thumb and a hat joystick on top of that (though I am skeptical as to whether this is EVER useful). Two of those hat switches are 4-way and one is 8-way. The 8-way is really only useful as a 4-way, though, because it's too tough to differentiate between the 45 degree spots. That's a total of 12 functions available for your thumb. I use the thumb controls for weapons functions and targeting. I'm hopeful that I can maintain those same basic movements and functions. because 15+ years of habit will be hard to break.

[Sporklift]

I'm pretty torn about what to use, I just repaired my Topgun Afterburner joystick (again). It has a stick and throttle a setup really gives you a great feeling when you get the hang of it. Still it is really hard to track and hit anything even while stationary and I feel like I'll get hit really hard by the mouse and keyboard players. I also have a Logitech game pad (a PS Clone) that I got for 15$ which seems like it would give great control but for all the immersion lost. I'm waiting for the game to come out before I get a new joystick. Sinking 500+ into a control system and getting wacked every time by a guy with a cheapo controller or mouse seems a little counter intuitive.

[Lauranis]

To be honest, I don't see any setup that doesn't use the mouse as a primary aiming tool as being especially effective. its simply so superior to other aiming devices that not using one puts you at a severe disadvantage. To that end I would personally recommend avoiding HOTAS (Hands on throttle and stick) setups unless you are trying to go for a real "sim" feel and are willing to accept the reduction in performance.

The setup I used for MW3 and 4, was a combination of a Saitek Cyborg gold and a mouse. The modern equivalent of the Cyborg Gold can be found here:

http://cyborggaming....rod/v5stick.htm

The stick can be configured for use in the left hand, and every element of its can be tweaked for optimal ergonomics. now, setting up the stick for optimal use in mechwarrior was a long road of trial and error, however by MW4 Black knight I had a system that was pretty effective. but essentially it boiled down to this:

The mouse is used for precision torso movement/aiming, with fire group 1 and 2 on the mouse 1 and 2, the Mouse 3 on the wheel was used for cycling targets and the mouses thumb button for jump jets.

Pushing the Joystick left and right turned the mech. Pushing the stick forward and backward does nothing. Twisting the stick gives fast torso twisting. The throttle is well, the throttle .

now we come to the joystick buttons themselves, and this is where it gets complicated. IIRC the joystick trigger could be used as a "shift" button in MW4, allowing the top joystick buttons to server two function each. thus the top buttons gave me weapons groups 3, 4 and 5, as well as with the shift button pressed, reverse, zoom and override shutdown.

additionally the POV hat on the top of the joystick gives a fantastic sense of control, In MW4 the hat could be used to pull of "parthian" shots by swinging the arms out.

So as you can see, virtually all of the mission critical functions of a mech can be controlled directly with this setup, there were some more sophisticated functions that weren't easily available under this method, such as reverse target cycling, but everything that is necessary is available.

I am kind of hoping that this sort of setup will be come even more powerful in MWO, allowing for truly independent torso and arm control.

Anyway, i kind of rambled on, put the point is that you don't need to get an expensive peripheral to make the game more immersive AND be more competitive, a simple £30 joystick can work wonders.

[Nusuth]

I'm sure my mind is too 'trigger-happy' to have ever conceived the notion of moving the joystick to the left hand just for movement. Tho it makes perfect sense.

Tnx alot for the reply.

[SteelCoyote]

Playing MW since MW2, I've managed to break 6 joysticks. And, sadly, my last one was discontinued ages ago.

But, my point is, Lauranis is right, a $30 joystick will do everything you want it to do, and, fwiw, it just "feels" more like MW than keyboard & mouse.

[P5YCHOKILLER]

Lauranis, on 12 May 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

To be honest, I don't see any setup that doesn't use the mouse as a primary aiming tool as being especially effective. its simply so superior to other aiming devices that not using one puts you at a severe disadvantage. To that end I would personally recommend avoiding HOTAS (Hands on throttle and stick) setups unless you are trying to go for a real "sim" feel and are willing to accept the reduction in performance.

The setup I used for MW3 and 4, was a combination of a Saitek Cyborg gold and a mouse. The modern equivalent of the Cyborg Gold can be found here:

http://cyborggaming....rod/v5stick.htm

The stick can be configured for use in the left hand, and every element of its can be tweaked for optimal ergonomics. now, setting up the stick for optimal use in mechwarrior was a long road of trial and error, however by MW4 Black knight I had a system that was pretty effective. but essentially it boiled down to this:

The mouse is used for precision torso movement/aiming, with fire group 1 and 2 on the mouse 1 and 2, the Mouse 3 on the wheel was used for cycling targets and the mouses thumb button for jump jets.

Pushing the Joystick left and right turned the mech. Pushing the stick forward and backward does nothing. Twisting the stick gives fast torso twisting. The throttle is well, the throttle .

now we come to the joystick buttons themselves, and this is where it gets complicated. IIRC the joystick trigger could be used as a "shift" button in MW4, allowing the top joystick buttons to server two function each. thus the top buttons gave me weapons groups 3, 4 and 5, as well as with the shift button pressed, reverse, zoom and override shutdown.

additionally the POV hat on the top of the joystick gives a fantastic sense of control, In MW4 the hat could be used to pull of "parthian" shots by swinging the arms out.

So as you can see, virtually all of the mission critical functions of a mech can be controlled directly with this setup, there were some more sophisticated functions that weren't easily available under this method, such as reverse target cycling, but everything that is necessary is available.

I am kind of hoping that this sort of setup will be come even more powerful in MWO, allowing for truly independent torso and arm control.

Anyway, i kind of rambled on, put the point is that you don't need to get an expensive peripheral to make the game more immersive AND be more competitive, a simple £30 joystick can work wonders.

That is one wicked stick!

[Cyber Carns]

Well I'll be going with this : Joystick mouse comb the perfect joystick:



and this guy converts them from game port to usb support: http://assassin3d.squarespace.com/

[Wessiafalia]

Cyber Carns, on 09 August 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Well I'll be going with this : Joystick mouse comb the perfect joystick:



and this guy converts them from game port to usb support: http://assassin3d.squarespace.com/

Ha! The good ol' Panther XL... God do I remember putting those things together and using those for Quake. They haven't hamde them for 10+ years though so it's hard to get one.

EDIT: I didnt realize the guy actually stocked them. Wonder where he gets them... I used to have a few in my garage but I tossed them

Edited by Wessiafalia, 09 August 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[Durahl]

@ Nusuth:
Haven't ever really used a Joystick before but now I'm using the Saitek X-65F Pro Flight Combat Control System which I exclusively bought for MW:O and it works pretty well so far.
Unless I run into a major fuckup at some point during a match I usually go away with 2-3 Kills per Match which is a lot considering you usually fight with 7 teammates against 8 enemies for the kills.

On the Stick I'm usually set with the 3-4 Weapon Groups...
Group 1 ( Index Finger/Main Trigger ): Main Weapons or those you use often
Group 2 ( Little Finger/Pinky Switch 1 ): Hard Hitters you want to ensure they don't miss
Group 3 ( Little Finger/Pinky Switch 2 ): Rockets 1 like LRM's
Group 4 ( Thumb/Secondary Trigger ): Rockets 2 like SRM's
...but I recently expanded them to all 6:
Group 5 ( Thumb/Coolie Hat Left ): Weapons mounted on the left side for around the corner Sniping
Group 6 ( Thumb/Coolie Hat right ): Weapons mounted on the right side for around the corner Sniping
One of the many Coolie Hats and another Button are also dedicated to setting the Weapon Groups.

On the Throttle I have things bound like this:
Index Finger: Zoom, Night Vision, Thermal Vision and Targeting Lock is bound on a 4-Way Coolie Hat
Middle Finger: Center Torso and Fullstop on another 4-Way Coolie Hat
Little Finger: Battlegrid ( Map ) and Scoreboard on a 2-Way Switch
Thumb: Shutdown Override on the Button of the top Rotary Button
Thumb: Jump Jets on the Button of the bottom Rotary Button

If you want to go for immersion you have to go with a HOTAS System ( not necessarily mine ) and in the Beginning you will suck if you never really used one before but with practice comes victory and with victory comes a LOT of satisfaction.
And let me tell you, there are things you just can't do with a mouse like keeping that 1.25sec LLaser steady on a pesky COM-1D or JR7-D on Steroids running past your mech.

[Cyber Carns]

Wessiafalia, on 09 August 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Ha! The good ol' Panther XL... God do I remember putting those things together and using those for Quake. They haven't hamde them for 10+ years though so it's hard to get one.

EDIT: I didnt realize the guy actually stocked them. Wonder where he gets them... I used to have a few in my garage but I tossed them

I know you can sometimes get them on ebay. But i bet that most of the ones he does are one the customer sends to him to convert, like I did.