425 replies to this topic

[Erik Jast]

Khobai, on 04 December 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

I think you guys misinterpreted what Russ said. He didnt say all stock mechs are extremely good. He just said some stock mechs are extremely good, and alluded that stock mechs arnt so bad that a skilled player cant overcome their deficiencies.

If Russ said that, then he is an ***** because forcing stock mechs on new players is completely opposite of what he just said. How can a new player who just started playing MWO overcome the deficiencies of a stock mech? What is wrong with the developer... First they nerf DHS which screws large Mechs like Awesomes, they lack proper matchmaking or at least a way to separate PUGs and Premades, then they have new players suffer through horrible trial mechs because they don't know how to balance the game correctly...

[Vermaxx]

Without premium time, trial mechs often pay more than owned mechs. Tell me what the message is there.

I do not think trial mechs are worthless, but they are definitely not optimized builds, and they often don't even carry full armor for their weight. They always have a smattering of differently ranged weapons too - something that mattered in tabletop and doesn't really apply here.

Yes, owned mechs give you XP and limitless customization. If you are a die hard free player, it is more economical to run with the straight-out-of-the-book trial mechs, in a game where you can generate far more heat, and all the maps tend to end in short range buttfests.

[8CH Trooper]

I think what PGI needs to do is have trial Mechs only play against other trial Mechs, after the new players have gotten enough cbills and experience they move up and play with the big boys.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sifright, on 04 December 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

Why would I pay for an advantage when I'm good enough to not need it?

I have a good win/loss ratio kthx I also don't need to pay to win. It goes against my ethos to even use such a feature. I'll beat you with my own skill and resources or not at all.

LOL but we are using our skill and RESOURCES to have an advantage over other pilots. Money is a resource sir. and using it is just as important as using bullets and band aides.

[MrPenguin]

Vermaxx, on 04 December 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Without premium time, trial mechs often pay more than owned mechs. Tell me what the message is there.

I do not think trial mechs are worthless, but they are definitely not optimized builds, and they often don't even carry full armor for their weight. They always have a smattering of differently ranged weapons too - something that mattered in tabletop and doesn't really apply here.

Yes, owned mechs give you XP and limitless customization. If you are a die hard free player, it is more economical to run with the straight-out-of-the-book trial mechs, in a game where you can generate far more heat, and all the maps tend to end in short range buttfests.

Actually, its far more efficient for me to run my commando because I'm guarantied to make at least 10k more then what trials make. Dat low repair bill.

[BigJim]

More efficient still to win.

I don't know what this fetish is all about with running trials to try & grind cash.
Winning is the most profitable way to play the game.

Edited by BigJim, 04 December 2012 - 09:02 AM.

[Imagine Dragons]

BigJim, on 04 December 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

More efficient still to win.

I don't know what this fetish psychosis is all about with running trials to try & grind cash.
Winning is the most profitable way to play the game.

FTFY...

[tenderloving]

Khobai, on 04 December 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:

I think you guys misinterpreted what Russ said. He didnt say all stock mechs are extremely good. He just said some stock mechs are extremely good, and alluded that stock mechs arnt so bad that a skilled player cant overcome their deficiencies. Which is true... I can use certain stock mechs and still end up #1 for damage and kills in most matches.

But yeah... obviously heat needs to be fixed so we dont have some stock mechs that are totally useless.

Think about what you typed. "They aren't so bad that a skilled player-"

Stop right there:
Skilled players may be able to do okay in trial mechs, but we aren't worried about skilled players, are we?

[Paramemetic]

You lot saying they are fine are continuing to miss the point. Folks saying they should be quarantined are continuing to miss the point.

Yes, if you put a bunch of trial mechs versus trial mechs, they will be able to stand up to each other. But it will not be a fun game still. These are 15 minute matches in realtime, not TT battles. If you have to wait 30 seconds after every single shot, you will only get to shoot your gun 30 times in the entire match. If your alpha puts you into shutdown for 90 minutes, you have just missed a full tenth of the game, provided you even survived. That is not fun. Adhering to TT gameplay styles might be great for people who played TT, but if you're here because you love BT, you're going to already be playing, be a founder, or be resistant to running away because gameplay sucks.

The concern here is new players who saw an ad and maybe are just wanting to fight stompy mechs for the first time ever. They get online and overheat and are killed 5 games in a row. This dude is not going to go "man I should really invest in this series and learn how to play and learn how to master battle tactics and heat management so in another 45 matches I can afford a customizable mech!" This dude is gonna go "this game sucks."

They will do that even faster if the don't even get to see custom mechs because they are quarantined to the trial mech room.

I know there's a lot of jokes about autism/asperger's disorder/whatever in these communities, but geeze, guys, try to see things from a perspective other than your own for even a few seconds.

[Zwietracht]

Sifright, on 04 December 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

Why would I pay for an advantage when I'm good enough to not need it?

I have a good win/loss ratio kthx I also don't need to pay to win. It goes against my ethos to even use such a feature. I'll beat you with my own skill and resources or not at all.

sounds like a challenge - watch your back - there will be the day a black/white coloured raven is blasting your rear armor then you know it was me

and actually you totaly get me wrong, im just tired of all the complaining & whining how much the game sucks by people who stopped playing it, just played 2-3 rounds, wanna have a decent mech right away from the start, pro streak kitty/contra streak kitty, boat haters, f2p players with "gimme all now" attitude and last but most important - all those self-proclaimed experts who are so ******* self-convinced that their opinion ist the only valid opinion ... its just annoying! so no harm done erh?

[Stone Profit]

Sifright, on 04 December 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

Given that you think trial mechs are fine, you obviously have no understanding of how to build a mech properly in the current game environment. Even if you are an amazing pilot if you don't understand the system rules a reasonable pilot in an excellently built mech will tear you apart. Even more so when it's a team of well builts mechs working together.

Ive been playing this game (BT) for twenty years. All my custom mechs are heat balanced. I know how to play the game, and understand how to build a mech in this game. Just because you cant use trial mech does not mean I don't know what Im doing. But nice try. Care to try again? or are you fail at MWO and Forums? no need to answer, that's a rhetorical question.

[Broceratops]

played some in a trial today. I won half but honestly I was carried. the most damage I did was 400 and that was me firing my ml's all game long. the heat sucks hard.

[Abrahms]

But, but... but guyz! Heat is fine!?!?!

Nope, ive been saying this for months. 3x the heat generation totally broke all the weapons. Minor 1 pt hotch potch fixes will NOT fix this problem.

Either fix the heat to coordinate with weapon tonnage (battletech was close, not perfect, with the balance). Increasing weight by 2 tons per point of heat severely gimped some weapons like the PPC. If a weapon's weight was mostly heatsinks (lower weight, hotter weapons) they now weigh substantially more than the heavier weapons that generated less heat.

15 tons weapn, 5 heat = 20 tons in TT
5 ton weapon, 15 heat = 20 tons in TT (the Gauss and PPC for 30 dmg is 1:1 ratio in TT)

In MWO,
15 ton wpn, 5 heat = 30 tons
5 ton wpn and 15 heat = 50 tons.

SO yeah, the hotter weapon used to be 1:1 now weighs almost twice as much.

Any stock that isnt a ballistic boat is therefore WAY TOO HOT IN MWO. However, these also carry next to no ammo as well, so either way, a custom mech is 100x better than these worthless stock mechs.

[Moungrym]

I don't know what makes you people whine so much.

I've only just recently started playing MWO, a few days ago to be exact.
Keep in mind what's the purpose of having trial mechs. They're just there to ease in new players,
like myself. And I must say, I had no trouble at all playing trial. I found this weeks
Awesome rather enjoyable (as for the overheating: boohoo, don't be so ppc greedy).

I'm willing to bet that most of ye debating here are deep into your mech counts anyways.

By the way, notice that most of those "n00bs" that ruin your game gain exp at the end of the match.... Just saying ...

Anyways, enjoying the game a lot (old mw fan ), trial mechs did right by me.

Have a nice day, and pardon my engrish.

Edited by Moungrym, 09 December 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[p00k]

trials might seem ok to people who haven't played a custom build, but that's only because they don't know any better. the difference is night and day

[Corvus Antaka]

Stone Wall, on 04 December 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

Heat does need to be fixed. It feels like on most maps I'm playing on MechWarrior 3's notoriously hot Beachhead map.

Buy double heatsinks.

[Moungrym]

@pook

I am running a custom build now, tyvm.

You seem to be missing the point of the trials.

And if you're running custom yourself , I fail to see how trial mechs present a problem to you ?

Extra points awarded for being presumptious and pointing out the obvious.

Edited by Moungrym, 10 December 2012 - 06:30 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Moungrym, on 10 December 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

And if you're running custom yourself , I fail to see how trial mechs present a problem to you ?

Egoistic View: They are dragging my own team dow.
Enlightened Self Interest View: If people come to dislike the game because of their best trial mech experience, they will never learn the joys of custom mechs and will leave the game, which will eventually kill the game.

Also, fundamentally, there is n o good reason why stock mechs have to be so terrible, and if they are terrible, that the "terribliness" must manifest in them being too hot.

1) Stock mechs were stock for a reason. They worked reasonably well. Maybe they didn't beat min/maxed custom designs, but many of them (and pretty much all of the ones we have in this game) were designed to fire their primary arsenal for several turns and salvos before they ran into heat problems. And a lot more before they ran into a shutdown scenario.

2) If you want to give new players weak mechs, give them mechs that are simple to play, where they can learn some basics. Instead of giving them mechs that are overgunned and undersinked, give them mechs that are undergunned and oversinked, mechs that mix many weapon systems of different ranges.
Upgrading a Jenner should not consist of replacing 4 Medium Lasers with 4 Small Lasers. That's just counter-intuitive. I

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 10 December 2012 - 07:04 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

An interesting point i saw this weekend. A Player in a trial Mech was the high score in a match. Yes it is not often you will see it happen, but the play did prove the trail Mechs are not "Useless"!

[MustrumRidcully]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 December 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

An interesting point i saw this weekend. A Player in a trial Mech was the high score in a match. Yes it is not often you will see it happen, but the play did prove the trail Mechs are not "Useless"!

See also: http://mwomercs.com/...in-an-arguments


When people say "useless", they are obviously using hyperbole. But if they are saying stock mechs are "extremely good", they must be ironic. Your anecdotical and contextless example means little for the latter.

Of course they aren't useless. They deal damage, and it takes time to kill them.

But extremely good? Then you would show me players that play consistently well with them, even if facing other players of their skill level in customized mechs, especially customized mechs that still don't use any special upgrades (of course, if they also do fine against upgraded mechs, they may really be extremely good.)

Taking a single heat sink Jenner and upgrading it to Double Heat Sinks and a faster XL Engine is obviously a buff.
But taking a single heat sink Jenner with standard engine and replacing medium lasers with small lasers also makes it better, despite still using standard tech.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 10 December 2012 - 07:47 AM.