263 replies to this topic

[rgreat]

Jeff K Notagoon, on 05 December 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

Nobody whined when the orcs in WoW didn't have 60HP like the orcs in Warcraft.

Go play Warcraft.

Battletech is much more complex system and need to be thoughly ballanced.
Not like now, when half of the rules are missing and other half is broken tweaked.

[Jeff K Notagoon]

This isn't battletech. It's just based in the same universe as battletech. quit using "because tabletop" as an argument for "x weapon SHOULD be y"

Edited by Jeff K Notagoon, 05 December 2012 - 08:03 AM.

[Heeden]

MustrumRidcully, on 05 December 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

But wouldn't people complain a bit if Orcs in WoW would fight with Rapiers and Daggers because the cost of swinging an Axe or Sword for more than 5 seconds is too high and you get better and sustained DPS with Rapiers and Daggers?

Well they did, initially Blizz tried messing with the resource system (rage/heat) which led to cycles of OP/UPness so then they started fine-tuning individual abilities (i.e. look at the problems with ER weapons/Gauss, don't buff every other build that worries about heat).

[Havyek]

I just like hearing people whine about how large 'Mechs can't take large weapons, as I use my K2 with 4 erLLAS to cut people down. Or did. Sold it to free up 'Mechbays. Now I miss it.

[Ogresan]

With 2.0 DHS, the only mech seen would be a 6 large laser Awesome. It is nearly viable already and completely overpowered with even slightly better cooling. On Frozen city it is a monster, if still limited by heat. This seems to come from the.pinpoint damage of the lasers. Being able to strip all armour off a section with one alpha and destroy the section with the next is too powerful. Especially considering no ballistic build could manage this feat without support weapons. I do agree with those that say the efficiency of DHS should be the same in or out of the engine. It is silly how it is now.

[MustrumRidcully]

Jeff K Notagoon, on 05 December 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

This isn't battletech. It's just based in the same universe as battletech. quit using "because tabletop" as an argument for "x weapon SHOULD be y"

But then - why does the AC/2 have to deal 2 damage per shot? Or the AC/10 10?
Why does the Atlas have to weigh 100 tons?

All this comes from the table top.

PGI did a horrible mish-mash - take values from the table top, tweak the rate of fire without concern for wreapon balance, double the amount of armour without rising the ammo in kind?

We will often be forced to go back to the table top: "If you want to have valu x, you must understand why the value was x in the table top, and what you would need to do so that value x still makes sense in a real time game with mouse aiming, or what you would need to change value x so that it works better in a real time game with mouse aiming".

[Garth Erlam]

Mister Blastman, on 03 December 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

They didn't test it! At least--with everything else not broken! Ugh. It is barely a 7 - 18% increase in dissipation from what we have right now. NOT GAME BREAKING AT ALL.

It made my CDA-2A go from 4-5 alphas to overheat, to 8. So ~160 damage then overheat, to 240 damage then overheat.

[MustrumRidcully]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

It made my CDA-2A go from 4-5 alphas to overheat, to 8. So ~160 damage then overheat, to 240 damage then overheat.

And that is bad? Why? How?

And what's your time to overheat now with double engine heat sinks?

And could it have been a problem of the weapon you had, that it was simply too good? I presume you didn'T exactly use an ER PPC for this feat?

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 05 December 2012 - 09:37 AM.

[FiveDigits]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

It made my CDA-2A go from 4-5 alphas to overheat, to 8. So ~160 damage then overheat, to 240 damage then overheat.

I'd really like to see both builds (SHS and DHS) that produce those values.

[Joseph Mallan]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

It made my CDA-2A go from 4-5 alphas to overheat, to 8. So ~160 damage then overheat, to 240 damage then overheat.

Stock or modified Garth? How many sinks, weapons etc?

[Lyteros]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

It made my CDA-2A go from 4-5 alphas to overheat, to 8. So ~160 damage then overheat, to 240 damage then overheat.

And this how exactly does address the imbalanced heat rates of weapons, caused by taking the TT heat values with slight modification, but three times the firing rate, without chaning the heatsinks but nerfing the crap out of double heatsinks.
This surely is really good for weapons balance. You know, ballistics getting madly buffed while high heat stuff like ppcs are just a joke if you want competitive setups. Oh and lets not forget the trial mechs who are exceptionally ****** from this.

But all the math in all those threads about it and the community giving one facepalm after another on this topic are surely all wrong.

Apart from that... a immobile cicida shooting a immobile target, with a setup especially created for this?

Edited by Lyteros, 05 December 2012 - 09:39 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

Well it's a 50% increase in damage, so it meant I could literally hold my fire button(s) down on 6ML's while running around at 120km/h. For quite awhile.

And 240 damage is a lot of damage to put out before overheating, and I only had 18/19 DHS. At 2.0, you get more than 20 DHS on a Mech, and there are a lot of weapons you can simply fire forever without heat being an issue at all.

Put another way, I was doing a dual-gauss worth of damage every cycle. And I could do that (roughly) eight times in a row.

Seriously, I don't benefit from DHS being 1.4 - my favourite Mech was vastly superior with it being 2.0 - but there's a reason it isn't, and I understand it.

EDIT: I'm at home (and patching), so I don't have my armour values, but I have a 300 XL, Endosteel, 6 medium lasers, and 19 Dual Heatsinks on my CDA-2A. So an alpha = 30 damage; 8 alphas = 8 x 30 = 240 damage.

[3rdworld]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Well it's a 50% increase in damage, so it meant I could literally hold my fire button(s) down on 6ML's while running around at 120km/h. For quite awhile.

And 240 damage is a lot of damage to put out before overheating, and I only had 18/19 DHS. At 2.0, you get more than 20 DHS on a Mech, and there are a lot of weapons you can simply fire forever without heat being an issue at all.

Put another way, I was doing a dual-gauss worth of damage every cycle. And I could do that (roughly) eight times in a row.

Seriously, I don't benefit from DHS being 1.4 - my favourite Mech was vastly superior with it being 2.0 - but there's a reason it isn't, and I understand it.

Hey but if you do it there might be a reason to not play a D-DC.

[FiveDigits]

Garth Erlam, on 05 December 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

[...] but there's a reason it isn't, and I understand it.

We don't. Because all you provide is anecdotes and no data or concrete build examples that are "broken".

[Havyek]

Jesus Christ.


You people whining about how the MWO "turn" doesn't match up to the TT turn can suck a lemon. Just because the weapon is reloaded and ready to fire, doesn't mean you need to fire.

I would rather have the recycle time on erPPCs 1 second and the heat 20 than the recycle time be turned into some stupidly large number just because you people can't manage your heat.
The only one who can determine when I can fire is me, not PGI. Do you really need someone to hold your hand so that you don't overheat yourself?

[Joseph Mallan]

Jeff K Notagoon, on 05 December 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

This isn't battletech. It's just based in the same universe as battletech. quit using "because tabletop" as an argument for "x weapon SHOULD be y"

Sorry Jeff but If I'm playing a game in the Star Trek Universe a Phaser should work like a Phaser. So a turn in MWO should be move, shoot once, heat sinks vent, keep moving, fire once, heat sinks vent. That is the mechanics of TT Turns. it's the mistake of adhering to the 10 second rule that is making the Mech performance so laughable.

[rgreat]

Ogresan, on 05 December 2012 - 08:44 AM, said:

With 2.0 DHS, the only mech seen would be a 6 large laser Awesome.

Avesome is so awesome...
BTW, Atlas-RS is better Awesome.


And how this:

Quote

It is nearly viable already

can transfer to this:

Quote

and completely overpowered with even slightly better cooling.

I do not understand... "nearly viable", lol.

[Jeff K Notagoon]

BDU Havoc, on 05 December 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Jesus Christ.


You people whining about how the MWO "turn" doesn't match up to the TT turn can suck a lemon. Just because the weapon is reloaded and ready to fire, doesn't mean you need to fire.

I would rather have the recycle time on erPPCs 1 second and the heat 20 than the recycle time be turned into some stupidly large number just because you people can't manage your heat.
The only one who can determine when I can fire is me, not PGI. Do you really need someone to hold your hand so that you don't overheat yourself?

this. I keep seeing people whine about PGI triping the rate of fire but keeping heat the same. All PGI did was triple the POTENTIAL rate of fire. if you think the rate should be slower then quit pulling the trigger so fast!

[rgreat]

BDU Havoc, on 05 December 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

Jesus Christ.

You people whining about how the MWO "turn" doesn't match up to the TT turn can suck a lemon. Just because the weapon is reloaded and ready to fire, doesn't mean you need to fire.

I would rather have the recycle time on erPPCs 1 second and the heat 20 than the recycle time be turned into some stupidly large number just because you people can't manage your heat.
The only one who can determine when I can fire is me, not PGI. Do you really need someone to hold your hand so that you don't overheat yourself?

Please use such an 1 second erPPC stuffed owen, while i will use my similar 1 second reload zero heat Gauss. Guess who will win?

Heat management my ***...

Edited by rgreat, 05 December 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[Nightfangs]

Zyllos, on 03 December 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Why was this question answered like this? It sounds like it means DHS will never be 2.0 for dissipation. Am I misreading this answer?

If this is true, this is a bad omen for the future of the heat system and weapon balance. There is SO many threads on why the current system is not properly working. Hopefully I either read this thread wrong or PGI will reconsider this.

Edit: As an FYI, PGI, DHS is technically suppose to replace SHS (reason why there are no Clan SHS).

So basically... as long as we shitstorm, we get ignored without a single comment.
As soon as we give up, our silence is used as proof that we were wrong in the first place.

So, PGI....
Fix the freaking DHSs to 2.0 as most of your fans propose!