58 replies to this topic

[kilgor]

PPC damage does seem to be a little off. I was firing at the leg of an AFK Raven and even after 8 ER PPC shots at the same leg, it wasn't even red. This was at close range, but I was using an ER PPC, so it shouldn't have had reduced damage.

[Redshift2k5]

hit detection on fast moving mechs is way out of whack to begin with.

[krolmir]

"Just a quick question...
Could we get a cool fix on PPCs instead? They run way to hot as is! "


"People used to snipe with ER PPCs in past games. "

Yes, but the gauss is no different in that regard and its far nastier. Heck, I've been hit by A/C 2 fire over 1000 meters. I can hit with my medium lasers at 450M easy. ER LL's at 1000M with advanced zoom, I can sit there and watch there armor heat up. As for trying to snipe a light, or quick medium with an ERPPC at max range.....

[kilgor]

The ER PPC is good for sniping on some light 'Mechs because the A/C 2 and Gauss are too heavy to equip. With good speed, they can get behind enemy 'Mechs and shoot them in the back at great distances and still reposition quickly. A lot of people don't consider a light 'Mech for this because they'd rather use them to circle strafe up close with smaller weapons. But, even up close, I've seen heavier 'Mechs disregard my light 'Mech while going for other heavier 'Mechs, so I take the opportunity to get behind them and unload with an ER PPC and Medium Laser to the back.

[MustrumRidcully]

Sniping a light mech? You mean stationary light mechs, not lagshielding light mechs that can change their course any moment with a convergence system that punishes leading?

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 04 December 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Shiney]

Really?? PPC's are only useful in combination with other weapons. Using 3 you have to pack out an Atlas with heatsinks and 3 PPCs and nothing else! That's just to do the same damage as 2 gauss. Simply they're too hot, they need a drop in heat, perhaps -1. ERPPCs are even worse.

[kilgor]

I was talking about using a light 'Mech to snipe with, not sniping a light 'Mech.

[MustrumRidcully]

kilgor, on 04 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

I was talking about using a light 'Mech to snipe with, not sniping a light 'Mech.

Oh, okay. Then continue. Maybe I'll try even try it some time...

[PurpleNinja]

krolmir, on 04 December 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

I know that for Balancing purposes that they would never assemble the mech's by the original board game rules. However for fun I will post a quick shot.

Don't you know how to rotate an image?
tsc tsc tsc

[Illya Ghost Bear]

krolmir, on 04 December 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

An ERPPC for innersphere should do 12 damage, clan versions do 14. Also on every mech chassis, the first 10 heat sinks have no critical slot usage reguardless of design (double, single, IS, or Clan), according to my old technical readouts. Current Double Heat Sinks are not true double heat sinks anyway. They could increase the effiecency easily, which would help balance it. Also making PPC's do less damage up close is sense-less for anything other than light, or medium mechs. On an assault chassis trying to keep a faster opponent far away is nigh impossible, unless you have back-up, or a great deal of luck. Another example, I was 300 back from a LRM boat Awesome, he was totally oblivious to me as he was being LRM'd from the front. I fired 12 rounds off slow continuous PPC fire into his back, between every shot of PPC fire I used 2 medium lasers and 4 SSRM's. It didn't kill him. He finally realized I was there and turned around, an alpha strike to his front torso, which had been waylaid by LRM's did.

Your old read outs are very wrong,

Inner SPhere PPC , and ERPPC do 10 damge. Clans do 15.
Engines fit 1 heatsink of any type inside for every 25 rating. So to fit all 10 base HS requires 250 rated engines. 200 rated only hold 8. This is in 1st edition, 2nd ed, 3rd ed, and modern rules of war and tro.

krolmir, on 04 December 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

I know that for Balancing purposes that they would never assemble the mech's by the original board game rules. However for fun I will post a quick shot.

not sure what this post is supposed to prove?
None of the TRO show locations of heat sinks. Mech Record sheets do though.

[Bartolomeo]

yeah.. ppc family feel strange..
I think heat is fine... but the damage have a weird behavior, sometime it feel like area of damage, hitting 3 or more sections of a mech with 1 salvo... but not real focus damage in one part.
hit in the back of a sicada (2 er ppc), it change to red, and side back torso go to yellow...20 damage should remove all the back armor

[Zypher]

Redshift2k5, on 04 December 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

hit detection on fast moving mechs is way out of whack to begin with.

Correction, hit detection period, in the posters example the Raven was afk. I have hit various mechs slow and fast, stationary and moving with over 30 damage alphas to one pinpoint location to the rear without damage registering, or even having the damage registering in the location the cross hair was on, it can happen with any weapon type. Sometimes the damage is partial, sometimes it feels like I am OP when all the damage goes through, this all goes on with an average of about 100ms ping.

The simple fact is the game has terrible hit detection or netcode, or both, fast mechs just exacerbate the issue. Every game is a crap shoot, I guess the only redeeming thing to note is everyone suffers from it which makes it hard to quantify at times, it just feels like everyone is beefier in some games.

Edited by Zypher, 04 December 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[Pando]

Glucose, on 04 December 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

PPCs have a minimum range of 90m (they do less damage from 0-90m). You would have killed him quicker if you backed up a little first.

He said ERPPC. Can't you read?

[Cerlin]

When comparing the PPC/ERPPC to Guass/AC10 I feel like the ballistic weapons are able to get the crit on the internal structure easier. This may just be my feeling but i Always crit with my guass, and I feel like the PPC doesnt do this enough.

Is this just me or has anyone else noticed this? Is it just because of the extra 5 damage?

Edited by Cerlin, 04 December 2012 - 09:24 AM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

krolmir, on 04 December 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

An ERPPC for innersphere should do 12 damage.

That would be the Improved ER PPC or iER PPC which was developed by Clan Mongoose. It is Clan tech and extinct Clan tech at that due to being the predecessor to the Clan ER PPC and serving as a midpoint between the Star League ER PPC (what we use) and the Clan ER PPC.

To wit, canon has beat you to the punch and removed it from possibility unless PGI decides the weapon needs a balance change and then all PPCs get new damage values including the iER PPC if we can ever get our hands on one (any model would be a museum piece on display in the Clan home worlds so that is not bloody likely).

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 04 December 2012 - 09:36 AM.

[drinniol]

imo the PPC's damage is good enough considering the saving in cbills and tonnage you're saving in ammo. The heat is a little too high but the fact is, and should remain so, that if you want a precision sniping weapon you're going to have to go with Gauss or AC/2.

[FerretGR]

krolmir, on 04 December 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

Which doesn't make much sense since its basically aimed lightning, which moves at the speed of light.

Minor nitpick, but electrons don't move at the speed of light.

Edited by FerretGR, 04 December 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[OldChieftain]

MustrumRidcully, on 04 December 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

What about ER PPCs?

But let's look at AC/10 vs PPC.

AC/10 in MW:O: 10 damage and 3 heat per shot, Cooldown 2.5; Max DPS is 4, Max Heat per second is 1.2
PPC in MW:O: 10 damage and 9 heat per shot, Cooldown 3; Max DPS is 3.33, Max Heat per Second is 3.

For the AC/10: 12 heat sinks, 12 tons for the AC/10, say 6 tons for the Ammo = 30 tons for 4 DPS => 0.13 DPS per ton
For the PPC: 30 heat sinks, 7 tons for the PPC= 37 tons for 3.33 DPS => 0.09 DPS per Ton
44 % damage/weight advantage for the AC/10.

With real Double Heat Sinks:
AC/10: 24 tons => 0.167 DPS/Ton
PPC: 22 tons => 0.151 DPS/Ton
10 % damage/weight advantage for the AC/10.

Yes this needs tweaking , slightly. The weapon should pound for pound balance the AC/10 one haas ammo and is heavy the other light but needs HS.... the DPS by weight should be near even however...

Yes, the hit detection is a bit buggy and needs work. tru even with advanced zoom and a perfect shot into an Atlas' left eye I don't always get a HS...

Yes the lead for a lightning gun is far, far too much. serious rework here. yes, very poor....

the rest of it is just bad aim..... mea culpa...Still packing a triplet of ER PPC's but I lean on the 2 ML and 1 LL backups too much...

[Justa Dogtrooper]

Almost forgot about the "Orion" and "Thor"
reading the text on the left of that BT manual..

[BlackSquirrel]

FerretGR, on 04 December 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Minor nitpick, but electrons don't move at the speed of light.

OMG thank you for pointing this out... It annoyed me, but I didnt want to get into a debate with anyone on the technicalities.