58 replies to this topic

[krolmir]

PPC's are totally backwards. They should make a lot of heat, they should do good damage, and they should have a very slow cycle rate. As of right now they cycle very quickly, and make way more heat than damage. Example, I was rolling around on my Awesome 9M and I found a Centurion that had gone afk. I was within 50meters, came to a dead stop behind him zoomed in and fired. I Chain-Fired 7 ER PPC shots to melt his REAR center torso armor. I then promptley over-heated. As soon as my heat was in check, I fired the 8th shot and killed him. Which is ironic, because I get one shotted in the back by dual gauss builds, when I overheat and do crap damage.Here is how you balance PPC's. Up the damage to about 3/4's of a Gauss Rifle. Slow down it's recycle time. Eliminate the heating effect on the target mech, leave the static effect on their istrumentation. If that is too much to ask for, then make Double-Heat Sinks require only 2 slots. Which is the correct amount according to my old FASA battletech books (yes I'm that old). If you want, I'll even copy and post it here, as long as they don't try to nail me for copy right lol......

Edited by krolmir, 04 December 2012 - 04:33 AM.

[Glucose]

PPCs have a minimum range of 90m (they do less damage from 0-90m). You would have killed him quicker if you backed up a little first.

[stjobe]

Just noting that your 2-critical slots DHS are Clan DHS, not Inner Sphere DHS:

Quote

The advanced Clan version twice the size of a standard heat sink; Star League era double heat sinks and those later (re-)developed by the Inner Sphere are three times as bulky as a standard heat sink.

- http://www.sarna.net...uble_heat_sinks

[Redshift2k5]

krolmir, on 04 December 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

Up the damage to about 3/4's of a Gauss Rifle.

PPC does 10 damage. Gauss rifle does 15 damage. That's already 67% of the damage of a gauss (75% would be 11.25, a neglible difference)

Edited by Redshift2k5, 04 December 2012 - 05:05 AM.

[Aym]

Redshift2k5, on 04 December 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

PPC does 10 damage. Gauss rifle does 15 damage. That's already 67% of the damage of a gauss (75% would be 11.25, a neglible difference)

PPC have a large minimum range, at 50 meters you are only dealing a fraction fo the proper damage. Learn how to use PPCs or swiotch to a different weapon system (Large Lasers are much easier to use)

Come on Redshift, stock 9M has ER PPC's, the main problem is if he REALLY shot 7 times into the back he wasn't hitting the same place with half of them.
Ok, the REAL problem is PPC's and ER PPC's are still underpowerd, but that's neither here nor there.

[Ne0 Am0n]

Redshift2k5, on 04 December 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

PPC have a large minimum range, at 50 meters you are only dealing a fraction fo the proper damage. Learn how to use PPCs or swiotch to a different weapon system (Large Lasers are much easier to use)

While you are correct about standard PPCs OP noted they were using ER PPCs which do not have a minimum range.

[Fiatsu]

Why would they Hotfix anything new free players aren't complaiing about >.>

[Thorn Hallis]

PPCs should be compared with AC10s, not with Gaussrifles.

[Dr Killinger]

There's been talk that PPC damage and hit detection is bugged, so I don't think a hotfix will happen. This will require some deep digging in the code, not just a simple integer change.

[Joseph Mallan]

Just a quick question...
Could we get a cool fix on PPCs instead? They run way to hot as is!

[krolmir]

An ERPPC for innersphere should do 12 damage, clan versions do 14. Also on every mech chassis, the first 10 heat sinks have no critical slot usage reguardless of design (double, single, IS, or Clan), according to my old technical readouts. Current Double Heat Sinks are not true double heat sinks anyway. They could increase the effiecency easily, which would help balance it. Also making PPC's do less damage up close is sense-less for anything other than light, or medium mechs. On an assault chassis trying to keep a faster opponent far away is nigh impossible, unless you have back-up, or a great deal of luck. Another example, I was 300 back from a LRM boat Awesome, he was totally oblivious to me as he was being LRM'd from the front. I fired 12 rounds off slow continuous PPC fire into his back, between every shot of PPC fire I used 2 medium lasers and 4 SSRM's. It didn't kill him. He finally realized I was there and turned around, an alpha strike to his front torso, which had been waylaid by LRM's did.

Edited by krolmir, 04 December 2012 - 05:16 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Krolmir...
...
...
No.

[MustrumRidcully]

Thorn Hallis, on 04 December 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

PPCs should be compared with AC10s, not with Gaussrifles.

What about ER PPCs?

But let's look at AC/10 vs PPC.

AC/10 in MW:O: 10 damage and 3 heat per shot, Cooldown 2.5; Max DPS is 4, Max Heat per second is 1.2
PPC in MW:O: 10 damage and 9 heat per shot, Cooldown 3; Max DPS is 3.33, Max Heat per Second is 3.

For the AC/10: 12 heat sinks, 12 tons for the AC/10, say 6 tons for the Ammo = 30 tons for 4 DPS => 0.13 DPS per ton
For the PPC: 30 heat sinks, 7 tons for the PPC= 37 tons for 3.33 DPS => 0.09 DPS per Ton
44 % damage/weight advantage for the AC/10.

With real Double Heat Sinks:
AC/10: 24 tons => 0.167 DPS/Ton
PPC: 22 tons => 0.151 DPS/Ton
10 % damage/weight advantage for the AC/10.

[Redshift2k5]

no evaluation will be complete until their hit detection isn't FUBAR'd

[krolmir]

The other issue with any PPC, ER or not is aim. Hitting a moving target is not fun, you need as much or more lead than an Autocannon. Which doesn't make much sense since its basically aimed lightning, which moves at the speed of light. I'm not saying they need to change everything to balance them. A few tweaks and they'll be great all-around weapon, without being over-powered.

[stjobe]

krolmir, on 04 December 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

Another example, I was 300 back from a LRM boat Awesome, he was totally oblivious to me as he was being LRM'd from the front. I fired 12 rounds off slow continuous PPC fire into his back, between every shot of PPC fire I used 2 medium lasers and 4 SSRM's.

So that's 120 damage from PPCs, 110 from the MLs, and 110 from the SSRMs; 340 damage you say? On a 480-490 total armour Awesome?

Even the ML damage alone would have killed it (total rear armour on a 9M: 80).

I think you're either exaggerating a bit or your aim isn't as good as you think it is.

[krolmir]

I know that for Balancing purposes that they would never assemble the mech's by the original board game rules. However for fun I will post a quick shot.

[Stone Wall]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 December 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

Just a quick question...
Could we get a cool fix on PPCs instead? They run way to hot as is!

People used to snipe with ER PPCs in past games.

[krolmir]

stjobe, on 04 December 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

So that's 120 damage from PPCs, 110 from the MLs, and 110 from the SSRMs; 340 damage you say? On a 480-490 total armour Awesome?

Even the ML damage alone would have killed it (total rear armour on a 9M: 80).

I think you're either exaggerating a bit or your aim isn't as good as you think it is.

Granted not every shot was perfect, so spread the damage around the arms, C/L/R Torso, and legs. Also take into account the PPC hit recording errors, and it makes more sense. The next BG I went into was the forrest, went thru tunnel and found a Catapult K2 with Dual Gauss .I was shooting him in nice and blurry Thermal mode as well if it matters.We started the Circle of death, I got too trigger happy, and over-heated. He lined up perfectly on my back and with no prior damage there; he one shotted me.

Edited by krolmir, 04 December 2012 - 05:51 AM.

[Enigmos]

The damage from a PPC or ER PPC is spread between the targeted area to adjoining areas, similar to an SRM salvo but a little more focused. You will note that the effect from a strike on the CT is damage to CT, RT, LT, and sometimes more.

The Gauss damages only what it hits, and does not spread its damage (except by penetration).

Personally I think this part is fine. What I have a problem is the low velocity squirt of the effective particles and absurd lead distance required. I don't understand why the ER PPC propagates over distance more slowly at close range than an AC20 projectile rather than being almost instantaneous. I should not have to lead my target at point blank range.

Edited by OriginalTibs, 04 December 2012 - 05:49 AM.