63 replies to this topic

[Felbombling]

Agent of Change, on 04 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

I'm sure there will be some of these but for the life of me I cannot understand why a certain segment of the community seems gung-ho on insisting dedicated team players (premades) are in it because of easy wins/c-bills/etc...

I mean, did I miss the part where they changed that game was billed as a team based game, or that somehow I could talk and play with my friends outside of a premade?

I don't care about raking in c-bills, I really don't care if my win/loss ratio drops to 1:1, I don't give a crap about my KDR that can drop to 1:1 as well. I like many are just interested in playing with friends and escaping the dregs of the pugs (not all of the pugs many of you are great and it's a shame we can't have you guys without the trolls and exploiters) to play against organized teams.

Can we put the stupid "lol you guys are getting what you asked for we hope it sucks for you" crap to rest, please?

I play 50-50 premade and PuG. I go in cycles of having fun in PuG matches, but eventually getting stomped a few times in a row to the tune of 8-0 or 8-2 by probable or announced premade teams. Pissed off, I then hop on TS3 and find a random group, roll a bunch of games and get bored... only to want to PuG again. I know full well what it is like to play with a team [which I much prefer] and the fun, challenging games that can be found in PuG matches. I am dying for a proper matchmaker, so that I can find a solid team and enjoy the game without guilt or boredom.

While you may be surprised to find that a segment of the community is gung-ho to make easy wins/c-bills/etc., let me assure you they exist. I have met them, and I would venture to say they are all great, friendly people. So, while your intentions may be pure from a standpoint of staying in constant contact with your friends, with no thought or consideration for your personal stats or wealth, know that an element exists in this game that really do care about those things, and have pushed the limits of fair play and good intention to achieve positive results.

So, yes, people who play premade 100% of the time may feel vilified by a certain segment of the game population. But if you are sitting there trying to convince anyone that premade groups did no damage to the game by chasing off potential players, when they knew they had incredible advantages running in their favour, then I say you are missing the obvious. You cannot even point a finger at them, really, because PGI set it up the way they set it up. What can you do… does PGI tell their players that they’ve paid for their Mechs, but not to play them right now because they are trying to implement a functional matchmaker? Hey, we’ve got a bunch of new customers coming in that will be disoriented and easy pickings. Can you guys all drop in Trial Mechs for the next month until we figure all this other stuff out? Hardly.

Understand this… this is coming from someone who enjoys premade play much more than PuG play, but took their foot off the pedal to help PGI, despite some of their decisions. It seems to me that going Open Beta without a proper matchmaker, intro videos and unbalanced Mechs seemed silly and misguided to me. I am sorry if my sense of humour missed the mark, but watch the forums in the next few days. Something tells me I won’t be far off the mark with my original assessment, as hard as it was to come to. Like I said in the post you quoted… it is human nature.

[MaddMaxx]

Just the re-introduction of 8-Man drop channels in TS will be a HUGE boon to the Team game. When the crew can't gather, I will join 7 others on Comms, like the old days, and take on all comers...

P.S. That way, at least you know that a drop is a connection issue. Sadly the PUG teams will take on ALL the Suicides/AFK'rs and C-Bill farmers, whereas before, they would have had at least 4 actual playa's in their midst.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 04 December 2012 - 09:56 AM.

[Felbombling]

GaussDragon, on 04 December 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

I think know you've completely missed the reason as to why most of us want 8v8 premades. People want the 8v8 premade vs premade for the challenge, that's the exact opposite of what you want if the aim is to farm C-bills.

You assume wrong, Gauss, but that is understandable given the bent of my humour and post. I play about 50-50 premade to PuG. I fully understand that most of the people want 8v8 for the challenge. What I cannot get over, however, is the number of teams that rolled match after match after match, knowing full well the level of competition they were running into was inferior. It is not as though a premade team on voicecoms had any illusions as to why they were winning 95% of their matches, right? At that point, what is the motivation, other than C-Bill farming, K/D padding or sadistic pleasure? For myself, premade gets boring awful fast, so either the sense of camaraderie is a greater determining factor to continue rolling PuG groups than the challenge, or teams dropped again and again in the vain hope that they would run into another premade. I can relate to that, because I’ve been in groups that got excited when we found out that we were dropped against another premade. But there is the rub… experience taught me, at least, that the occurrence of dropping against other premade groups was very slim… thus the boredom. I learned that it was more painful hoping to drop against another group than it was PuGing it and hoping NOT to drop against a premade group.

[Zabnicki]

I am all for it. I seem to do better in a group of dedicated players. It motivates me to play better and keeps me focused on the fighting smarter.

[Bilbo]

StaggerCheck, on 04 December 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

You assume wrong, Gauss, but that is understandable given the bent of my humour and post. I play about 50-50 premade to PuG. I fully understand that most of the people want 8v8 for the challenge. What I cannot get over, however, is the number of teams that rolled match after match after match, knowing full well the level of competition they were running into was inferior. It is not as though a premade team on voicecoms had any illusions as to why they were winning 95% of their matches, right? At that point, what is the motivation, other than C-Bill farming, K/D padding or sadistic pleasure? For myself, premade gets boring awful fast, so either the sense of camaraderie is a greater determining factor to continue rolling PuG groups than the challenge, or teams dropped again and again in the vain hope that they would run into another premade. I can relate to that, because I’ve been in groups that got excited when we found out that we were dropped against another premade. But there is the rub… experience taught me, at least, that the occurrence of dropping against other premade groups was very slim… thus the boredom. I learned that it was more painful hoping to drop against another group than it was PuGing it and hoping NOT to drop against a premade group.

The motivation is to drop with people whose company you enjoy. Conversation and comraderie go a long way towards aleviating boredom

[Elandyll]

I do not vilify pre-mades, I think it is great that a bunch of friends get together and have fun.

What I don't understand is why there will be a mode where they will be able to chose to not have to deal with Pugs altogether (8v8), whereas there will not be a mode where I (who for various reasons cannot use Voice chat and have RL reasons to prefer Pugging) can chose to not have to deal with pre-made groups?

To be fair, there should really be 3 modes: 8v8 exclusively, everything goes up to 4 man pre made, and a mode where "lone wolves" can choose to only be paired with other lone wolves, no pre-mades whatsoever (wether groups of 2, 3 or 4).

[Nginear]

If all my friends log on at the same time, we have a 5 man. It is simply rare to see all of us on at the same time, so We will be dropping in the Pug-Que. However, If we do collect a few more of our gamer friends who will stick with the game, you can bet your Freebirth or Clanner cockpit padding that we'll be dropping in 8 man ques.

Hell, we may drop 5 man into the 8 que if they let us. Yeah we'll get rolled, but it'll be fun to see how many we can take =D

Death before dishonor.

[Orkhepaj]

8?

[Argann]

Isn't 88 a code for something?

[Orkhepaj]

Argann, on 04 December 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Isn't 88 a code for something?

yes for an integer number between 87 and 89

[Felbombling]

Bilbo, on 04 December 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

The motivation is to drop with people whose company you enjoy. Conversation and comraderie go a long way towards aleviating boredom

Very solid point you have there, Bilbo. Let me ask you this... if you played 20 matches when Open Beta started and won 19 of them, would there have been a point where someone suggested you hang out on teamspeak to enjoy each other’s company, but drop as PuGs to try and find more challenging matches? I’m just trying to find a tipping point. I know mine was around twenty matches.

[Bilbo]

Mine was when I was shot in the back repeatedly or continually finding that the rest of the team turned around and went the other way as soon as any opposition was met. It was long ago(Closed Beta), and there is no going back, for me. Back when it was easier to do we regularly dropped against each other and other units for the challenges it offered. Unfortunately, phase 1 broke that completely.

[Agent of Change]

StaggerCheck, on 04 December 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Very solid point you have there, Bilbo. Let me ask you this... if you played 20 matches when Open Beta started and won 19 of them, would there have been a point where someone suggested you hang out on teamspeak to enjoy each other’s company, but drop as PuGs to try and find more challenging matches? I’m just trying to find a tipping point. I know mine was around twenty matches.

Personally win or lose I can't stand the silence of Pugging. I have runs of incredible win streaks I have some slouches too, but in the end it's about the group more than anything else, now I'm happy that i get that and hopefully a consistent challenge.

I respect your points from earlier, and I get where you are coming from. There are three elements (community, winning, challenge) at play and i believe most players fall roughly into one of the combinations in order of importance:

Community, Challenge, Winning <- Where I see myself
Community, Winning, Challenge
Challenge, Winning, Community
Challenge, Community, Winning <- Where I get the impression you are coming from
Winning, Community, Challenge <- Where I believe most of the 'pugstompers' live
Winning, Challenge, Community

[ThunderHart]

Dukov Nook, on 04 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

A majority of your unit based premades will do the 8x8s. Occasionally, I can see doing a 4 man while waiting for a room to fill. I can tell you for sure that most of BWC will be looking at 8 man drops. We tend to be types who appreciate winning a good fight a gazillion times more than just a win.

My thought exactly.

[WardenWolf]

I think MWO is on the right track, but too many potential group sizes are not served well right now. I have a complete suggestion for a matchmaking system that would work for *all* group sizes - posted right over here:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1538882

[Felbombling]

Agent of Change, on 04 December 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Personally win or lose I can't stand the silence of Pugging. I have runs of incredible win streaks I have some slouches too, but in the end it's about the group more than anything else, now I'm happy that i get that and hopefully a consistent challenge.

I respect your points from earlier, and I get where you are coming from. There are three elements (community, winning, challenge) at play and i believe most players fall roughly into one of the combinations in order of importance:

Community, Challenge, Winning <- Where I see myself
Community, Winning, Challenge
Challenge, Winning, Community
Challenge, Community, Winning <- Where I get the impression you are coming from
Winning, Community, Challenge <- Where I believe most of the 'pugstompers' live
Winning, Challenge, Community

That makes total sense, Agent. I'd have to say you nailed it.

[Ricama]

AvatarofWhat, on 04 December 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

I'd like to think most premades would be more interested in 8v8. Unfortunately there will still have to be odd man out 2-4 man premades playing when there is not enough people for a 8 player premade. I know I'm gonna hate being the 9th guy to show up.

if you end up with 9 people you should just have the odd man out be the replacement if someone needs to mess around in mechlab or go to the washroom. You either get fast swapping out of the odd man out or really quick games because no one wants to get swapped out.

[Scratx]

Right now on Comstar EU alone I see like 9 8-man premades. There may be around that many groups of 4 or less, but it's mostly less.

[Broceratops]

drops are instant right now, so apparently a lot

[Funkin Disher]

My group will be playing 8 mans when we have the people available, otherwise we will stick to 4 mans. We're not fussed either way, we just enjoy playing together.