2028 replies to this topic

[Ronstar]

PGI,

Congrats on making the game all about who has the most ECM and D-DC's

you basically made it so that all 8 man drops are all lop sided

Thank you for breaking your game even further!

[MichaelAAF]

ECM currently allows you to hide but when set to disrupt it should show up on radar from a long distance, its broadcasting a huge signal, but you cant get a lock on anything under it till close.

This way its not about hiding 100 tons of fusion powered steel? its about screwing up opponents ability to fire.



ECM affects missiles in MWO because they are using a sensor lock on style of play, exactly what ECM should affect, in TT the fluff is missile are dumb fire so ECM doesn't affect them. So ECM is better in MWO the table top.



i think the beagle should affect the ECM as well, cut down on the range etc.

Michael

[Big Bad Wulf]

ECM works fine stop complaining.

[Greyson Kitiker]

Please attempt to respond to the following questions in your responses:
The weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM.
The behaviour that weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM..
A suggested change (increase/decrease) to the ECM stats to improve balance.

Its really kinda of hard to tell the real effect of the ECM in battle due to other then the Atlas mech the 3 other mechs carring ECM are usually abusing a current problem in game called LAG Shield makin them almost unhittable, but its not appearing to be fixxed anytime soon.
The effect it has on SSRM's and LRM's are very noticeable and realy need to be dialed down a bit in the case of both. The SSRM need to be able to fire well being jammed but just treated as a normal SRM2. Well the LRM's man they just get the short end of the broomstick with ECM and calling a TAG a counter is something of a bad joke in true pug games anyone that says otherwise is lieing to ppl. The enemy mech to be tag'd is a light mech or med that is most likly got the biggest engine they could put into the mech making it extremly hard to hit with a pulse laser much less keep a TAG on it long enough for a friendly mech to notice it on the screen and then hit the fire button and then wait for the flight time before they impact on said enemy ecm mech ( in most cases where the pilot is avg skill those LRM's are smacking into dirt/rock/building/air not the enemy mech as tag is just to hard to maintain lock with in its current form)

ECM has made most pugs that have exp players in them better then before not many lone wolf as they have learned there fates of those that run away from supporting lance mates. Well the ECM has made new players with a there lack of skill and understanding are getting curb stomped into the ground very harshly and very often and I just can't think this is a good idea for newbie's to get slaughtered in mass because they don't have any real help to get them ready to fight a ecm equiped enemy. I still see newbie's fireing LRM's without getting a lock or even highlighting the enemy but this is more due to lack of training options for new players then a ECM problem.

The Range seems right but the total blanket effect seems over the top and not really following TT lore. I'd suggest LOS allowing lock on but unable to get any other info and make SSRM able to fire well in the 180 but act like normal SRM instead of SSRM's. On the LRM's other then the LOS thing not much can be said long lock on time is good but unless ur going to let LRM's be Hot Fired u kinda of totally taken them out of it in a true pug fight( I will point out I don't see any problem with its current set up with premades due largly to the fact that premades can make sure ppl in there grp have TAG and have there own ECM mechs and are ALOT fairer then the TRUE PUG drops)

If ur wondering what Hot Fired is , Its a optional rule with LRM's that gets rid of the LRM's min range by arming the warheads in the launcher. There for they can be fire'd point blank for full damage down side in TT was if ur weapon got crit it blow up and u took damage.

Edited by Greyson Kitiker, 08 December 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[Xandre Blackheart]

ECM in it's current iteration is a broken mechanic. I've been exploiting it for the past several days, just to confirm it for myself.

I'm a decent pilot, but when I consistently get 3+ kills in a commando, you have to wonder exactly what's going on. The ability of a light fast mech to consistently avoid direct fire weapons because of netcode issues, combined with near immunity to lock-on weapons, and the ability to carry and utilize lock-on weapons and nullify other mechs immunity to lock-on weapons is just too potent a combination.

ECM Commandos are the new Streak Cats. I'll probably get bored with my new toy soon enough, but in the meantime I will be abusing the hell out of it.

[Suicidal Idiot]

At least it's a big shake up. Not just the same old, but a brand new way to win. Victory goes to those who prepare.

[B0oN]

Marcus Wulf, on 08 December 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

ECM works fine stop complaining.

Plus none of the complaining LRM boaters seemed to be thinking about their ability to .... wait for it .....
INDIRECT FIRE !

True Streak boaters have it hard now ... no more point and click adventures for them if their opponents are smart, poor souls aren´t they ?
Dont think so, they´d just have to be smart enough to bring ECM alongside them to counter or try some other weapon systems...*cough SRM´s cough* .

ZOMG ?!?!

And no...its not all D-DC´s ... I rather play something that is able to overtake a fortress in under a day when wielding mah ECM´s at you

So people, reading through all of those complaints ( the frag yeah, I just did) just shows me personally one thing : some of you dont wanna change and adapt, eh?
Tsk, tsk, tsk, better find another config that works for you, quickly.

See you guys under my umbrella.

Edited by Rad Hanzo, 08 December 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[Ashnod]

ECM is fine except for the fact that its not supposed to affect Streak missile systems

[Tenoctris]

I've only used the Commando ECM mech at this point. So my opinion may have less value.

Ok so the idea of electronic warfare is really cool. It adds a whole new level of strategy beyond the targeting and pressing of your weapon groups to make pretty lights and big booms. I 100% encourage PGI to continue down this route and expand upon combat concepts outside of the normal pew pew pew. I get mental images of mechs designed for pure electronic warfare, able to identify targets from far away, jam sensors, jam coms, shut down enemy mechs, take weapon groups offline, etc etc etc...

That being said. I think the 100% dead zone of the ECM needs to be tweaked a little. Leave the counter system alone; meaning another mech can still jam an enemy ECM. Take the sensor/lock jam and make it interference. Mechs can still lock on, get target information, etc but at a greatly reduced efficency. As the closer a mech gets to the target inside the ECM shield the less interference they recieve.

Lets dork out for a moment and think of Star Trek the Wrath of Khan. The Enterprise enters that Nebula to escape from KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!(had to) and their sensor systems recieve some major interference. They know the general area of the enemy ship and can sometimes lock on to it but overall their ability to fight has been greatly reduced.

This allows teams that are either ECM light, or target lock heavy to still fight their enemy just at reduced ability. Teams could organize a "push" into an ECM protected team as the effectivness of the ECM goes down the closer you are to your enemy. At the same time the ECM mech is still providing protection for their team. It isn't 100% protection like it is now but nothing should ever be 100% in a game of this genre.

[Suicidal Idiot]

Ashnod, on 08 December 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

ECM is fine except for the fact that its not supposed to affect Streak missile systems

I think streaks were the whole point behind it in MWO, though. Personally, if they don't like the streaks, I think they should just declare that 3 or more streaks interfere with sensors, causing them to detonate in the tubes.

meanwhile, my streak commando with ECM is doing ok.

[MavRCK]

ECM demands skill and coordination by light mechs (including cicada) giving credence to the old saying of never leave your wingman. There are strategies involving, 2 Rav3L, 1 Rav3L 1 JenF, 1Rav3L 1 Cicada (ECM) ... the only issue is that I feel that at the moment, at least one light must have ECM - preferably two. In addition, I can see that when knockdowns are reintroduced, ECM may become even more important to cloak and allow lights to snipe / attack at distance.

I think as the meta opens up and people feel more comfortable playing against and with ECM, you will see a broader selection of mech configurations... even the dreaded streak cat... it's a light destroyer and with the right counter-ECM, the streak cat can chew through lights!

I have posted this before, but feel that the only change to try at the moment would be to reduce the radius of ECM from 180m to 150m - such that players must be more careful of their positioning with regards to one another to obtain the benefits of ECM.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

JagdCrab, on 08 December 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Originally ECM was counter-mere for BAP.

Originally ECM range is 180m and not a whole map.Deal with it.

[BlindPR]

Please vote:
http://mwomercs.com/...-on-d-dc-atlas/

[Serphentos]

I hate it. Big time. If you don't own an ECM Mech and your team doesn't as well, then...go buy one, otherwise your dead. That's what I call overpowered. And if you say, missile boats aren't completely useless, try to play one in a random group. If you win or loose, doesn't depend on how good your piloting is or how coordinated your team plays, it depends on the number of ECM mechs on each side.

[Horned Bull]

Temptis, on 04 December 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

several issues with ECM:
1. with my RVN 3L standing infront of another RVN 3L both with ECM neither of us was able to get a lock for SSRM2 at all.
not even with me putting TAG on him
2, my xml files do not show a new actionmap for ECM toggling, leading to me beeing unable to toggle ECM at all.
i would have to delete my defaultprofile.xml and thus delete all my binding customisations in order to be able to toggle ECM
what is the XML code i have to add to enable ECM toggling?

other than that ECM brings MWO gameplay to a whole new level.

press J

ArmageddonKnight, on 04 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

ECM's on light mechs has made them even more of a PITA to kill than they were previosly. Add on to the fact that light mechs also do to much dmg to heavier mechs imo ..makes them extremly OP. i've played light mechs ..and they are a joke ..you can pritty much beat any other heaveier mech ..evem more so now if you put on a ECM.

SSRM's used to be a good idea ..even one of them on an otherwise laser or projectile mech helped deal with the pesky light mechs that would constantly be to fast for you to hit. Now though you cant lock onto them ether.

Light mechs need their hardpoints limited to light weopns only ..no more medium pulse laser ..or large laser. .or ppc's etc. Then make these light weapons do even less dmg than they currently do. This will make it so lights can only really dmg vs other lights and make them be used for their intended prupose .. Scouting.

Other than that however. ECM seems like a good anti ML boat at close range ..which is good.
I just know that currently light mechs should ether a) not be able to use ECM (which is silly imo as they are for scouting and should be able ot use EW) or b ) be made so they do very very little dmg vs heavier mechs via weapo limitations ..which is much more realistic.

light mechs do like 200-300 up to 400 (when they have a good match) damage. Heavier mechs are much more prone to break 500 damage points per game limit. The only real problem with lights at the moment is the netcode

[Thirteen]

I think that first what ECM needed is to be added to balance weight. For now, you win if you've got more ECM mechs then enemy team. And it have great influence on gameplay. I've played 3 ECM vs 1 ECM. It was easy and uninteresting win. Opponents couldn't do anything to respond.

[Magnarr]

Having run many hours worth today in groups of both 4 and 8 I can form a feedback on ECM. Typically I'm a Jenner scout pilot here.

In 4's, it's not much of an issue as a couple folks use it and many don't on the PUG half. That makes for a sneaky few which works fine on both sides. Some balanced mech weights are happening with good battles.

In 8's however ECM mechs are being stacked and it creates typically either a standoff or a base rush; nothing in between. More importantly the general mix of medium/heavy mechs are being discarded. A typical group might include 3 Atlas and 2 Raven for example, all running ECM on hide mode. On paper that may be fine and countered but with what; the same.

This makes for a scout team that can't be targeted (which, okay, is smart). However, imagine say 2 Raven and 1 Cicada all running ECM cap your base. Of course your team sends a light or two back to defend without taking too much away from the front line. But you can't target them and hence call out a focused target. It's one-way blind, which creates this ECM stacking in the first place.

What I saw today, in 8's at least, is if you don't have 4-5+ mechs running ECM, you're at a huge disadvantage right now. Sure, yeah, some will troll claiming on tactics etc but really after a very long time in many groups yes it's true and we've all been experiencing it.

So... the feedback. After some verbal discussion with teammates offering some examples:

- The 1vs1 on ECM may be mitigated. Perhaps skew the counter ability to act as a 2vs1 or 1.2vs1 in the countering favor.
- Open up the ECM to other mech weights (this will become a mess if not controlled)
- [**My personal recommendation**] Reduce the range of ECM to not work on either side once up close (within 50 meters for example). No explanation necessary there I hope. ---If I can look into the whites of your eyes, surely I should be able to lock on info and a streak.

[Mild Monkey]

Magnarr, on 09 December 2012 - 02:51 AM, said:

Having run many hours worth today in groups of both 4 and 8 I can form a feedback on ECM. Typically I'm a Jenner scout pilot here.

In 4's, it's not much of an issue as a couple folks use it and many don't on the PUG half. That makes for a sneaky few which works fine on both sides. Some balanced mech weights are happening with good battles.

In 8's however ECM mechs are being stacked and it creates typically either a standoff or a base rush; nothing in between. More importantly the general mix of medium/heavy mechs are being discarded. A typical group might include 3 Atlas and 2 Raven for example, all running ECM on hide mode. On paper that may be fine and countered but with what; the same.

This makes for a scout team that can't be targeted (which, okay, is smart). However, imagine say 2 Raven and 1 Cicada all running ECM cap your base. Of course your team sends a light or two back to defend without taking too much away from the front line. But you can't target them and hence call out a focused target. It's one-way blind, which creates this ECM stacking in the first place.

What I saw today, in 8's at least, is if you don't have 4-5+ mechs running ECM, you're at a huge disadvantage right now. Sure, yeah, some will troll claiming on tactics etc but really after a very long time in many groups yes it's true and we've all been experiencing it.

So... the feedback. After some verbal discussion with teammates offering some examples:

- The 1vs1 on ECM may be mitigated. Perhaps skew the counter ability to act as a 2vs1 or 1.2vs1 in the countering favor.
- Open up the ECM to other mech weights (this will become a mess if not controlled)
- [**My personal recommendation**] Reduce the range of ECM to not work on either side once up close (within 50 meters for example). No explanation necessary there I hope. ---If I can look into the whites of your eyes, surely I should be able to lock on info and a streak.

I would not allow for SSRM lock-on when the ECM mech is within LOS, since that would reinstall the Streak kitty as overloard once again. I Would suggest to increase lock-on time for SSRMs. I would also suggest to allow LRM-lock when the ECM bearing target is within LOS and the LRM mech is outside the ecm bubble, with the lock-on time considerably longer (2 seconds longer, mayhaps), so the support mech would be required to lead their target visually without the target brackets, which is difficult, yet possible. Also, make ECM destructible (not sure if it isn't already) and increase the cost of this piece of equipment drastically, as well as repair costs. We are talking about a very sophisticated and rare device in terms of BT lore, and while no slave to the lore, I think it is a good thing we can use the lore to mitigate unwanted results. A Commando with ECM? No, Sir! It is not manufactured in large numbers, hard to get on the free market and if in field, during a campaign, it must wallop your wallet hard if you are careless enough to risk this invaluable piece of tech. Summary:
- allow LOS lock-on for LRMs (no Artemis bonus) outside the umbrella
- allow for a very long lock-on period for SSRM to force the streak boats to sneak and maneuver.
- make ECM destructible and VERY expensive to obtain and maintain.
Monkey, out

Edited by Mild Monkey, 09 December 2012 - 03:51 AM.

[Bluddwolf]

I'm not sure if this has been suggested already, obviously I did not read the previous 56 pages, but here is my suggestion for ECM.

ECM should have a varying radius of effect based on the speed in which the mech that is deploying it is moving. A mech that is stationary would deploy the maxium area of coverage. A slower moving mech would have a moderately sized area of coverage. Finally a fast moving mech would have a comparatively small area of coverage.

In my view this would bring some balance to what we are seeing on the ground. Currently the tactic being used is to have pre made groups of 5 x Atlas and 3 x Scouts (Cidada / Commando etc.) or the opposite mix. We have also seen the near disappearance of the use of streaks and long range missiles.

Although I have not experienced this in my own organized unit, I'm sure some will face the unfortunate experience of being told, "You need to pilot an ECM capable mech in that chasis or go PUG".

Another solution might be to expand the ECM capability to more mechs, to include one variant in every chasis type. I'm not concerned if this is lore canon or not, and I'm sure the Devs don't either. This whole ECM issue goes to the playability of the game, and that always trumps lore.

[steelblueskies]

Korm, on 09 December 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

press J




light mechs do like 200-300 up to 400 (when they have a good match) damage. Heavier mechs are much more prone to break 500 damage points per game limit. The only real problem with lights at the moment is the netcode

erm. so when i break 650 in a 4medlas ecm equipped cicada, or a friend in a jenner tops 7 kills and 900 damage ...

or when 8 120kph+ mechs with ecm and a quad of mlas all run by your team drilling the same leg in passing for every member, then either run to cap or start picking kneecapped targets...

granted it's not the 900 i expect for good performance in a "shotgun" atlas, or the 900 i expect for opportunistic firing and intelligent placement from a long range laser sniping lrm boat.

Mild Monkey, on 09 December 2012 - 03:49 AM, said:

I would not allow for SSRM lock-on when the ECM mech is within LOS, since that would reinstall the Streak kitty as overloard once again. I Would suggest to increase lock-on time for SSRMs. I would also suggest to allow LRM-lock when the ECM bearing target is within LOS and the LRM mech is outside the ecm bubble, with the lock-on time considerably longer (2 seconds longer, mayhaps), so the support mech would be required to lead their target visually without the target brackets, which is difficult, yet possible. Also, make ECM destructible (not sure if it isn't already) and increase the cost of this piece of equipment drastically, as well as repair costs. We are talking about a very sophisticated and rare device in terms of BT lore, and while no slave to the lore, I think it is a good thing we can use the lore to mitigate unwanted results. A Commando with ECM? No, Sir! It is not manufactured in large numbers, hard to get on the free market and if in field, during a campaign, it must wallop your wallet hard if you are careless enough to risk this invaluable piece of tech. Summary:
- allow LOS lock-on for LRMs (no Artemis bonus) outside the umbrella
- allow for a very long lock-on period for SSRM to force the streak boats to sneak and maneuver.
- make ECM destructible and VERY expensive to obtain and maintain.
Monkey, out

i should point out that tag is still *supposed* to work for the tag user themselves so any catapult with energy mounts should be able to load a good streak set and self paint targets while in ecm bubble.
the half cat commando as the ecm carrier is a bit odd though not as nasty as the 3xsrm6 version.

end of the day the flight time was compensation for lrm tracking, which was an easy route to facilitate indirect fire with a spotter. me, i think i'd sacrafice the indirect spotting tracking for a return to competitive with other direct fire mode weapons(as lrms as a long and medium range coverage system make them extremely common, and thus their hardpoints extremely common), but as noted previously i continue to think that both energy and ballistic weapons need to be brought more in line with the missile system mechanics, rather than having such a preponderance of free abilities baked in.

the artemis disruption is via the in missile electronics being in the bubble, the narc disruption is the signaling system of the beacon being in the bubble. the neutering of bap, etc is supposed to be while in the bubble as well, but presently has effects outside the bubble. to put this in a little more perspective, you lose sight of friendlies when they are inside ecm bubble of an enemy set to disrupt, but not outside. bap however is being neutered outside the bubble, as are standard locking and detection mechanics.

when i said previously that ecm was an offensive ew system, this is what i meant, and what is implied canonically. it only disrupts what is inside its area of effect, which is listed as 6 hexes. this is why a bap system cannot detect a stealthed/powered down unit with ecm when passing it within 4 hexes(which is baps active detection range), but may know that there is *something* horking its detection nearby.


if you think ecm is fine presently right now, then bubbling your buddies with "counter" mode on should unjam your locks to the mechs under a disrupt bubble 1000m away. it doesn't, it has lopsided effects, which are out of line with the environment of factors around it AND not canon.

the biggest question to me, and what fraction of people i can represent that carry this view, is if this is fine in light of "to be released modifications", or if it is believed to be "fine as is", developmentally.