2028 replies to this topic

[CoreHunter]

yeah we can wonder around for 15 minutes trying to find one another under our Romulan ECM feilds.

[TheSteelRhino]

THAT'S IT!
Bring in larger maps...everyone will quit using ECM as we'll never actually get to engage each other, and if there is no cap, every match ends in a draw and therefore defeat.

It'll be virtually abandoned due to BOREDOM.

[Kahna]

8v8 (note NOT your 'experience' as a lone wolf or PUG stomping 4 man) matches are kind of stale. There's very little variety and if you bring a Light, Medium or Atlas that doesn't have ECM you're hurting your team (not because your team isn't good, but that you simply cannot counter the sheer numbers of it).

There's almost no strategy and maneuvers. Most of the games turn into a full blown 'quick everyone under the ECM umbrella!' Assault/Heavy base rush or a massive brawl midfield while fast movers rush the base instead.

I miss the old stand offs from snipers and LRMs, maneuvering under cover to close the distance with them, having Lights sneak behind enemy lines harassing their Fire Support and making strafing runs along the flanks to draw the enemy Mechs apart.

As it stands 4 man matches offer a superior fun factor than 8v8 does because of the randomness of players, load outs and weight matching. I've always preferred sync drop 8v8 before (matchmaking phases crap) because it was challenging, but now with P2, ECM and no weight matching it's just dull, everyone's the same and I feel like I'm just going through the motions. It's not hard and I've long ago adapted to it and can stomp people, but it's BORING and I dislike being pigeonholed into certain mech chassis because they're simply far more effective than others (yes, I'm all about efficiency).

I've retired my 22 DMG (4SL, 2SSRM) Founder's Jenner D that I bought from PGI for $60 and all of the bonuses that come with it (bonus cash and XP) to run the more efficient 25 DMG (3ML, 2SSRM) Raven 3L with ECM because it gives me better protection from detection and LRMs (why bother using cover?) and both protects me from enemy SSRMs (situational) and enables me to use my SSRMs against an ECM mech where my Jenner would be SOL.

I pilot my Raven with the same tenacity that I did with my Jenner except of course that now I don't have Jump Jets to add another dimension of game play which gives scrubs a very small increase in the chance that they'll kill me (people rarely look up).

Edited by Kahna, 10 December 2012 - 02:42 PM.

[CannonC0cker]

ECM can be countered using certain tactics just as LRMs and SSRMs can be... Get your ECM equipped scout within counter range and counter the enemy ECM mech.

It might be a good idea to introduce a larger Counter-ECM range, though. I would bump it up at least 50% compared to the Disrupt range. This would allow ECM equipped scouts to counter enemy ECM boats from a safer distance, but still require some thought and teamwork.

Additionally, the Counter mode should counter more than one Disrupt ECM in its bubble... This would cut down on some boating.

[Force Majeure]

Dear Dev,

Thank you for introducing the ECM. Lots of fun.

I have one suggestion however for improving it (read bellow), but first, I have to react to the criticism that some have directed toward this new feature.

Please pay no attention to those few who are whining because you took away their noob-tube (aka: load-outs made exclusively of weapons that don't require any skill to aim, like LRMs and Streaks).

What as happened here, basically, is that you have introduced a counter-play to the all powerful StreakCat. The StreakCat (or LRM boat) are not "dead", not by a long-shot... But they are no longer the "be all and end all" of load-outs.

Those who relied exclusively on those builds are going to be pissed, because now, they have to learn to work with a friend... or die! This new, multi-layered, game-play is challenging them, forcing them to use their brains, which is something they are not accustomed to do. Frustration is understandable.

Furthermore, the game now rewards teamwork even more than before. ECM has done wonder's for collaboration... at least among players who know what they are doing. It's not uncommon anymore to see a lance form around an ECM capable mech, just to benefit from the cover.

The only thing you need to figure out now, is how to discourage all ECM teams in 4-8 men groups. I am hard-pressed to think of a single reason for running a mech without ECM (other than getting bored of my 3L). If ECM is exclusive to only 4 mechs, maybe you need to find something else that could be exclusive to a few other mechs to justify going for those. Or come up with some penalty to the ECM game-play mechanic, other than just it's weight, so that using it comes at a cost.

For instance, I believe it would be fair (and plausible) for ECM to give off the general position of the mech using it in disruption mode. After all, if ECM is generating lots of interference, that interference would betray someone's location. It would still be impossible to lock-on a mech with ECM, but you would get a general idea of where it is, at least... He could have 4 of his Hunchy friends waiting for you around the corner and you wouldn't have any way of knowing it, so that wouldn't prevent from setting up ambushes, still. ECM mech would be more likely to get hunted down, after-all.

This small addition would also resurrect the Jenner, which has taken a backseat to the Raven (and even the Commando) has top light-mech since the introduction of ECM.

What I would like to see added to the game next is some sort of low level ECM, or cloaking device (for a Jenner maybe?), which would do the same thing has ECM, but just for one mech, and with no offensive capabilities. So a scout would be harder to detect at medium to long range, but this "cloak" would be useless at close range.

Edited by La Guillotine, 10 December 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[Damocles69]

i like what you are trying to do with the ecm. i really am. the only problem is that is does way to much for 1.5 tons. in essence you gave the abilities of the angle ecm(5tons) and the null signature generator(not sure on exact tonnage but i know it increases your base heat generation by 10% while in use) with none of the downsides. i am not suggesting that you tamper with the mechanism. ecm works great right now. instead i suggest a buff to the counters to ecm. one of my suggestions you are already doing. the tag buff out to 750m is prefect. in addition to this i suggest a slight buff to the bap. allow bap equipped mechs to target mechs hidden under the ecm blanket. not the ecm equipped mech itself. allow normal targeting of these mechs but do not allow the bap equipped mech to share these targets with its teammates huds. this allows communication and coordination to still be key in defeating ecm. once the bap equipped mech is inside the the ecm equipped mech's 180m sphear of influenced the bap ceases to function. this way bap, ecm, and tag are ruffly equal to each other and all act as an effective counter to each other. in addition to this, AMS would once again be used on any mechs that can not equip ecm to deal with LRMs that once again become useful but not overpowered. steaks still retain all the de-buffs of the ecm so a team will have to corridnate to take out ecm users so thier streaks become effective again. this will discourage streak boating. just a thought

[Silence]

The biggest problem with the way ECM has been implemented is that the only hard counter to ECM is ECM. I cannot say strongly enough how absolutely ABSURD this is. The entire point of MW is counter play, one mech counters another, one weapon counters another, and so on. When something's only counter is itself, that something is inherently broken. The implementation of ECM has turned a game of rock paper scissors into a game of rock rock rock. If you have less rock than the other team, you lose.

[Force Majeure]

Silence, on 10 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

The implementation of ECM has turned a game of rock paper scissors into a game of rock rock rock. If you have less rock than the other team, you lose.

You may be exaggerating a little, but you're not totally wrong.

Damocles69, on 10 December 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

allow bap equipped mechs to target mechs hidden under the ecm blanket. not the ecm equipped mech itself. allow normal targeting of these mechs but do not allow the bap equipped mech to share these targets with its teammates huds.

That sounds pretty complicated to me... Now it sounds like a game of rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock :-P
There must be a simpler solution.

Edited by La Guillotine, 10 December 2012 - 03:13 PM.

[CoreHunter]

well if cats were still usefull with LRMs we would see less "Oh nos they are all caping our base uncontested". Those noob tubes had lasers to fight off lights with while you are flailing around in the middle of the map. The role of fire support/base defence are now no longer present in most matches.

[sarkun]

How the hell was it possible that someone thought that it is a good idea, that a single system that has weight / crit requirements as AMS + 1 ton of ammo, or a single MG with ammo, or one DHS does SO FREAKING MUCH?!

This is a whole separate issue from the actual effects of the ECM, which I believe to be too strong as well, but the fact that it is also so small and light just adds insult to injury.

Oh, and lets limit it to the not so popular mechs, to give them a role. And lets also make it possible to install on one of the biggest baddest mechs in the game, just for LOLz. I'v recently had a PUG match, where HALF (4) of my team were Atlases D-DC. Guess who won. Yeah, surely it was because of my superior piloting skillz.

I get it, this is beta, time for testing. You've tested it. Tomorrow is patch day. Fix it please.

Or don't - if you think that indirect fire support or long range weapons should be extremely rare, let everyone brawl with med lasers and autocannons. COD with mechs.

[p4r4g0n]

The one thing I have noted from 66 pages of comments is NO one has been able to refute that ECM does too much for what it costs whether in terms of C-Bills, effort / skill to use, tonnage, critical slots, impact on combat effectiveness, etc, etc.

All the suggested counters to ECM while workable to a greater or lesser degree based on player skill, team coordination or whatever cannot negate that one simple fact.

I won't bother with suggesting changes as it probably has already been covered prior to this and realistically, is ENTIRELY dependent on what PGI is aiming for game play wise.

Also, for all those saying how it is a wonderful counter to streakcats, ECM does not stop good streakcat pilots and will probably be worthless when 6SSRMs come into play and streakcats will be able to do hit and runs with 1 salvo kills.

For those saying it counters LRMs, I have ask if you guys just started playing again after rage quitting when the bugged flight patch came into play with the Artermis patch or you just have problems using AMS and finding cover.

[CoreHunter]

they want ecm to make a AoE stealth fine. It should only break target sharing within 180m and reduce detection range not eleminate targeting within range tho. BAP can extend detection range to counter this for early detection. Tag can allow for target sharing within ECM range.

[ElLocoMarko]

Verminaard, on 04 December 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

I love ECM! no more seeing enemies wherever they are, tactics are valid again. You can actually catch people by surprise for once!

This is a great step forwards, and in itself a nerf to streaks. Helps balance greatly IMO.

I'm lamenting the missle hardpoints in some of my mechs but at the same time I'm right there with Verminaad. I dream about getting a Cicada with ECM and a tag to sight in my LRM friends. But I'm a mech lab tinkerer and constantly running out of C-Bills. Eventually when I complete my collection of one of everything, then I'll build up bank again.

[StUffz]

I'll wait until Clans are coming and then I will relink to this thread...

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

I'm sure PGI were thinking strategically when they introduced ECM before the Stalker. Sarcasm much...yessir

[Ozrick]

I like the EMC effect except in one area when a enemy meck is within say 50-100 meters I should still be able to get a lock on them. As it is I connot lock an enemy with ECM even at point blank range (Withing 10 meters). That makes streak srms unuseable. I dont run a streak cat but I do have them on my Atlas to help fending off lights. With ECM they can just circle as they did in the past and whittle me down. So when at least with very short range we should still be able to get some kind of lock.

[Corvus Antaka]

Alex Steiner Davion, on 10 December 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Exactly. This is the problem with ECM. There is NO tradeoff. You get an awesome piece of equipment that gives you amazing abilities to screw with the other team, and there is no penalty other than a few tons and slots. No heat, no large amount of slots taken, no excessive weight etc. And forcing the other team to get ECM or get screwed over is not balance. They should have brought back Knockdowns before ECM because right now with the lag shield it's pretty difficult to hit light ecm mechs running circles around you, and you can't rely on streaks anymore. I used to run my Atlas with SRM6s, but switched to streaks after I got frustrated my lasers weren't hitting lights even though I saw the beams hit them. I also think it's ridiculous when the players abusing ECM keep saying "Adapt and Change or get left behind!" What they're basically saying is "I get all these free abilities. Find a way to deal with it or tough luck" All i'm asking for is... Balance. I will find new ways to deal with ECM, so long as they pay penalties for using ECM

1. the invisibility bubble is ridiculous. before this patch, we scouted the enemy found them, made a plan. Now, everyone takes ECM, we base rush, and if we run into each other its a fight, otherwise another lame game. The fights are all slugfests now. There is no LRM on the hill to cover your base tactic, no use for LRMS at all really, and the stealth bubble is the primary culprit

2. I had a match today vs 4 ecm commandos, an ecm cicada and 3 atlas. with the lack of knockdowns, the horrible netcode & the FPS troubles AND the fact that ssrm's are now completely worthless, the match was beyond nightmarish. I felt like I was playing mech3 again, and in all the bad ways. it was actually worse than mech3 id wager to say.

3. Mech4 AND mech3 both did radar & ECM right. plenty of suggestions here to help fix it too. But right now this game is in a horrible place. brawlfest ecm humpwarrior online.

4. ECM has also made coordinating pugs much harder, as finding the enemy is so much more difficult.

5. the primary indicator the balance is completely out of whack is simply how many ECM mechs are being fielded, and how the ECM has completely removed 2 critical weapons systems from the game. only ecms can counter ECMss, and that alone is the most obvious indicator of a problem. Why PGI wouldn't have ECM countered by BAP, why the stealth bubble are beyond me.

6. LRM warrior online made me stop, and today a number of people simply said in game until ECM is fixed they are out. People are constantly whining about how "until this is fixed im out", and while many of you say "great, theres the door", the sheer volume of these constant comments plus the noticeable reduction in playerbase on the comm channels is pretty indicative that things are getting worse instead of better. At this point I'm really crossing my fingers and toes that PGI figures this out fast, because otherwise MWO might be in some serious trouble soon.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 10 December 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[warp103]

La Guillotine, on 10 December 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

You may be exaggerating a little, but you're not totally wrong.



That sounds pretty complicated to me... Now it sounds like a game of rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock :-P
There must be a simpler solution.

ez make it gecm not gecm and aecm together.

[warp103]

StUffz, on 10 December 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I'll wait until Clans are coming and then I will relink to this thread...

hmm how many year til clans come???

[Garrath]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but NEITHER ECM prevented LRM lock/firing when within line of sight.