2028 replies to this topic

[197mmCannon]

soarra, on 04 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

i have see a variety of mechs out there, including mechs i havent seen much until today like the raven.
ECM encourages teamwork

I agree with this.

But thats part of the problem for pugging because you don't pick your teammates. Is MM going to make sure every team has at least one mech on it with ECM? I doubt it.

I can't wait to try out ECM in an 8man but I probably won't have time till this weekend. I'm guessing I will really enjoy it then.

[CatHerder]

I think the current incarnation of ECM is good, but not particularly great. Several items need to be revised:

1) BAP should offset ECM when within short range. For instance: if BAP can detect powered-down mechs, it should also be able to target (and lock!) ECM boats when in REALLY short range (i.e. within 180m).

2) ECM "protection" of friendlies needs to be tightened up - 180m is too much space, a single mech can protect its entire team and make them target-proof without significantly hampering the team's ability to maneuver. The tradeoff for the team protection should be, in my opinion, the closeness required can limit maneuverability and mobility. After all, ECM is protecting the group, so presumably this is an acceptable tradeoff.

3) I think ECM "disruption" should be the job of the BAP. Otherwise only a select few mechs are available to counter ECM. Think about it: one piece of equipment is intended to enhance detection (BAP) and the other is intended to hinder it (ECM). The logic should be that they cancel each other out, to a certain degree. I've proposed one degree above, another degree could be to add to BAP the "carpet" capabilities that ECM also enjoys, and make them "opposing" pieces of equipment. Or, alternatively, enable ECM to be added to ALL mech variants, the way BAP is now. Why only some variants would be benefitted with it seeing as ALL mechs can be affected seems to me like a silly decision.

That's my $0.03... thoughts?

I like the new dynamics it introduces, but when something like this is added that's such a huge game changer, it's critically important to think of what the counters will be without REQUIRING THE PURCHASING OF ENTIRE MECHS...

[Asmosis]

Franklen Avignon, on 04 December 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

250m/s, while not good, isn't terrible.

Its close to impossible to deal with decent light pilots which people with <50ms have no issues with (beyond their own ability to aim at least).

slower mechs (80km or so) arent so bad with a 250+ ping but you generally can't focus a specific area (RT for example) due to the fluctuations in ping causing the amount you need to lead jumping all over the place, which of course you can't track. Best you can hope is shooting for CT, leading based on that and damage falling across arms/torso locations unless target sits still.

Edited by Asmosis, 04 December 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Haitchpeasauce]

CatHerder, on 04 December 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

That's my $0.03... thoughts?

I like the new dynamics it introduces, but when something like this is added that's such a huge game changer, it's critically important to think of what the counters will be without REQUIRING THE PURCHASING OF ENTIRE MECHS...

I agree with every cent you gave, CatHerder.

[White Bear 84]

Has a full moon passed, because the majority of this feedback is actually well mannered and constructive which makes a big change from alot of previous features.. ..its refreshing coming onto a thread and actually having pages of constructive comments! +1 to the peeps!

Havent tried it out yet, but cant wait to see how it works for my Atlas D-DC catch y'all again in a few hours!!

[Henry Pride]

Tested it in many Games today ind 4ppl and 8ppl groups and i think its fantastic on one side, but on the other hand it outclasses some mechs.
Its a great tool to disrupt and cloak ur whole team and do a lot of chaos between the enemy, but it outclasses other not emc carryin scouts. Why chose Jenner or Raven or Commando without ECM, when u can take the one with? Why taking Atlas K or RS when the DDC has the ECM?
And one thing thats disbalancing as well is the fact, that the Team with the most ECM Mechs will win automatically, no matter how good or bad the other team is... Why? Cause u the Team with the last active ECM interupts most of the enemie firepower...

[Arcturious]

I don't understand how you have to purchase mechs to counter ECM? Every single mech with an energy hard point can counter ECM (TAG). If you don't have energy but only Ballistics, then ECM has no effect on you beyond your HUD anyway, just point and shoot. If you have purely missile slots then you will be partially effected by ECM yes. The example given above by 2x LRM15 and 4x SSRM2 becomes 2xLRM15 and 4x SRM2 (or 2xSRM6, or 4xSRM4 with tweaking). The LRM will initially be slightly worse, but over time more people will start taking TAG and ECM.

Also it was only just introduced. Of course it's going to be everywhere on Day 1. Because it is limited to a handful of variants though, most people will grow tired of playing the same mech all the time and will gradually migrate back to their favourites. Only the dedicated ECM capable mech players will still run then, this will be offset by the MUCH more prevalent TAG.

[CatHerder]

Thanks! And one other thing - the problem isn't the "weapon" or its effect, the problem is how you counter it. If it's going to affect everyone, then you have to add a means for those same people affected to counter it *on their own terms*.

This means that requiring the purchase of specific mechs to be able to counter ECM is a silly decision. ECM should have been enabled for ALL variants right out of the gate.

Matchmaking is another problem: does the matchmaker ensure that both teams have at least one ECM mech of the same class as the other team's? With all the farmer/disconnect problems out there, this can be a REAL risk. This is why it's important to allow people to purchase their own anti-ECM countermeasure. The effectiveness of that countermeasure can be explored and discussed. But buying a new Mech that one is potentially unfamiliar with (or unfavorable to) is NOT an acceptable solution for this.

Cheers...

[Nauht]

Melbourne, Aus player here. Average ping is 250 - 300 ms.

Main mechs are HB SP with default weapon and a Dragon with LL/gauss/SRM.
K/D ratio 2.2, 100% pugging. I've never used streaks or LRMs, I'm a brawler.

This really is a L2P issue. The problem isn't ECM it's that you got too reliant on a cheese weapon and haven't learnt how to shoot with anything else.

[Xerkics]

I have to say I really like ECM it has vastly improved my play experience not only because of removing non stop streak spam but it made everyone play more tactically people hang around you and support you a lot more than before. Its actually encourages team work . I have also been able to get more kills with LRMS shockingly. I definately dont want to see it on all the variants. Having it on certain mechs gives you a clear defined support role and its nice as there is more emphasis on scouts tagging scouting countering ecms its certainly have been far more enjoyable today than its been in weeks.

Edited by Xerkics, 04 December 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[LuckJaw]

Haniwa, on 04 December 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

after some matches, i think ECM is awful for the game
- the only useful light mechs are the ones with ECM
- it basically removed LRM, SSRM and AMS from the game
- everybody will just brawl and ignore ECM
my suggestion:
make ECM an activated item with cooldown. Like activate for 1min, 1min cooldown

I like this idea.... By 1 minutes is too long... Maybe 30 seconds...

[Ginga121]

ECM's are awesome!

(Pointing out that I mainly PUG, sometimes with 1 friend)

I used mine to shield my team and there was a Cicada on my team that had an ECM as well. At one point the enemy Raven (with an ECM) ran into range of us and no one could lock him with rockets. It was a simple case of one of us swapping our ECM's to counter and the problem was sorted. Even in that PUG match we managed to silently agree on who was Disrupting and who was Countering.

And can people stop saying Lights are OP. My Raven gets torn to pieces by simple lasers and I have max armor on it. I cannot stop moving at any point if there is the smallest chance I will be shot because I get killed too fast. It also costs me 120kCB's or more if I die to fully fix it. That's more than my Atlas costs me if it dies.

I've taken down Lights in my Atlas easily. You just need to master control of your chosen mech and learn to aim your shots carefully. Most people just panic when a light is circling them and spray laser fire everywhere which is SOOOO easy to dodge in a light. Controlled, thought out shots are a nightmare.

I will admit that streak Commando's are way too OP. Other than that most other lights are pretty easy to kill or at least scare off.

Bottom line, I love the ECM. I think it brings tactics back to the game

Edited by Ginga121, 04 December 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Gulinborsti]

Sooooo, I played some PUG games in all my favorite Mechs (Jenner-D, Centurion-AL and Catapult-C4) and couldn't see big difference in my performance. I don't have any ECM capable Mechs so I can only share my opinion on those variants.

All those Mechs have SSRM as secondary / support weapons and I still fired a lot of them.

The LRMs are also still working most of the time, but they are the only weapon that suffers more when the opposing group spams ECM and the own team doesn't have or doesn't know how to play it (hint: disrupt, TAG).

My impression is still that it looks quite balanced and far from game breaking or unbalancing.

Edited by Gulinborsti, 04 December 2012 - 05:39 PM.

[Stingz]

I have definitely seen more teamwork centered around ECM carrying mechs. It isn't surprising when the lance centered around a ECM carrier focus-fire a stray mech.

[Grenadapult]

I'll try to be polite, but just got devastated 7 games in a row. I admit, I have ONLY played 8 on 8. I understand the public outcry about streaks, and understand the ECM, but WOW. At 345m with line of sight on 3 enemy mechs, I had no data on them? Really? I am a team player, this is team game. But now we are like "uh, shoot the uh... guy on the left. No, no, MY left!!" I suppose the days of target ID'ing is over, along with knowing what components are damaged and which opponent is damaged how much. I feel like I'm playing Call of Duty out there with no HUD and just a pretty picture. Sorry PGI, but I came to MWO because I don't actually like Call of Duty. Sure hope it gets nerfed soon.

[WarOrk]

IN group of 8 drops, finding ourselves up against ECM-heavy opponents, which turns the game into a "blob" of mechs running into another "blob" and a close-range slugfest ensuing. For me, this is very disappointing. I feel like any mech NOT ECM equipped has become a detriment to the group. Dropped 7 games, saw no less than 5 Atlases in each (The D-DC ECM variant) and felt like my 80-ton Awesome was a detriment to my team because it opened another Assault mech slot for opponents who loaded up with +20 ton Atlas plus another ECM. I know once the newness wears off it will change, but for now, my gaming experience is that this is now a light mech and D-DC only game. Everything else become superfluous. ECM has great potential to re-open the battlefield to tactics, but this blob versus blob (a blob being all mech huddled inside ECM shell). Definitely needs a down-tweak. Either to the strength or ECM, the radius or the weight/cost.

Edited by WarOrk, 04 December 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[Koningswulf]

ECM just works fine, just because you cant play a mech without using the most OP weapons like streaks and gauss was before you start whine and cry. Adapt and use weapons that are balanced instead,

[Stingz]

WarOrk, on 04 December 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

IN group of 8 drops, finding ourselves up against ECM-heavy opponents, which turns the game into a "blob" of mechs running into another "blob" and a close-range slugfest ensuing. For me, this is very disappointing. I feel like any mech NOT ECM equipped has become a detriment to the group. Dropped 7 games, saw no less than 5 Atlases in each (The D-DC ECM variant) and felt like my 80-ton Awesome was a detriment to my team because it opened another Assault mech slot for opponents who loaded up with +20 ton Atlas plus another ECM. I know once the newness wears off it will change, but for now, my gaming experience is that this is now a light mech and D-DC only game. Everything else become superfluous. ECM has great potential to re-open the battlefield to tactics, but this blob versus blob (a blob being all mech huddled inside ECM shell). Definitely needs a down-tweak. Either to the strength or ECM, the radius or the weight/cost.

Limiting the max stack of ECM cloaking effects would probably help. Making it less useful to have 8 ECM mechs, since the opponent will only need a few to stop it.

You only really need 2 anyways, 1 for each lance(4) moving in a group.


Detection range of a ECM mech really needs to be bigger though, 20m of leeway is really small.

Edited by Stingz, 04 December 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[Haitchpeasauce]

+1 to ECM having a fixed duration and a cooldown.

Then, timing of ECM will need to be carefully coordinated.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Ive done ONE game today and it was utterly frustrating...the games probably going to turn into D-DC fest from streak cats....You cannot target the mechs within plain visual range, cannot see what sections are damaged, Etc, and lrms are kinda borked with enough ecm mechs on the opposing side...I was hoping ecm suits would simply screw with enemy detection of YOUR mech and YOUR mech alone and increase lock time etc...the extra bells and whistles seem like a bit of overkill. I was also hoping that i could mount ecm on any mech i had the space/tonnage for it...I dont even feel like playing anymore its utterly frustrating at the moment.

Edit:
(Gameplay balancing ideas)
Heres my suggestion, Split the ecm into Two systems....Guardian Ecm and Angel Ecm (both of these are in the tabletop)

Gecm could only work on YOUR mech...it decreases your detection radius...non bap mechs could only pick you up at about 500 meters out, and BAP mechs could pick you up and be able to target you at 800meters out even within plain line of sight...you could still be a ninja spotter, and sneak in undetected, but not be able to mask your allies from enemy

Aecm could have the masking effect for mechs within a certain radius of you....narcs wont stick, and mechs under your jamming umbrealla will not be detectable...however YOU as the source of the jamming WILL be detectable...this will also be true even if your overlapping with another AECM mech...

Edited by xXBagheeraXx, 04 December 2012 - 06:09 PM.