2028 replies to this topic

[White Bear 84]

Ginga121, on 04 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

I will admit that streak Commando's are way too OP. Other than that most other lights are pretty easy to kill or at least scare off.

Now this IS THE DAY.... ....A commando that is OP!!

[Kyrs]

The weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM:
Current Settup with the range of the field of ECM seem to nerf more the mech different type of weapon, more specifically
small pulse and small laser are now obsolete since you have no range where you can use small laser and your ssrm.(no overlapping range)

The behaviour that weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM..:
I feel safer in streak CAt then in a mech that has small laser and ssrm for second line of defence. I'm pretty sure that this wasn't part of the desired effect

A suggested change (increase/decrease) to the ECM stats to improve balance:
Either increase range of small laser (240meter )or reducing the range of the ECM to (130metter) you compensate and nerf more that streak cat abuse and not has much the single or double user of streak with small laser. Your currently making medium laser overpowered vs small

[Xendojo]

I just don't understand why people can't shoot direct-fire weapons without a lock...i don't get it.

If you see it, YOU CAN SHOOT IT. And yes that goes for LRMs too. You can direct fire LRMs with LoS.

Pretty satisfying to see the damage indicator flash, and know that you made that shot connect unassisted IMO. Or maybe it's that the majority of players are used to easymode lock-on loadouts, and can't actually connect with ballistics or lasers? For people with ping/FPS issues...your time will come, have patience.

This is just the START of EW(that's Electronic Warfare if you didn't know). More to come folks! Like Targeting Computers! Oh MAN i can just imagine the river of QQ if that little piece of gear got implemented. C3 with master and slave units? I can only hope.

PGI TAKE HEART!!!
About half the feedback i am seeing is "QQ RAGE ITS OP!" and the other half is "THIS IS AWESOME GEAR I LOVE IT!" so you probably have it pretty close to where it should be. Keep up the good work!!

Edited by Xendojo, 04 December 2012 - 06:11 PM.

[WarOrk]

I forgot who I read the quote from - but some earlier post said that without locks and target info, we've just turned MWO into another Call of Duty shooter clone and I couldn't agree more. If I wanted info-less aiming, I'd play CoD. I want my technology, thank you!

Someone else pointed out that the "canon" for the Guardian ECM suite did not include the "all-powerful" version that jams everything. I couldn't agree more.

ECM should be part of a family of competing electronic warfare sets that includes BAP/ECM/TAG/NARC/Missile Lock. Like Rock/Paper/Scissors/Lizard/Spock, with each one countering maybe 2 others, but in turn defeated by 2 others. As it stands, you have Rock/Paper/Scissors/Lizard/NUCLEAR BOMB.

It is also ridiculous that the ECM suite acts as both ECM and ECCM. You should have to select either/or, or pay 2x weight to have both abilities. Force a little more diversity into selection and lance configuration.

My 3-hours of gaming have just turned into whomever has the most ECM and a tonnage advantage wins. Period.

Appreciate your efforts to keep adding new elements! Don't stop - just don't leave this in place as-is for very long. Hotfix?!?!?!

[xXBagheeraXx]

Xendojo, on 04 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

I just don't understand why people can't shoot direct-fire weapons without a lock...i don't get it.

If you see it, YOU CAN SHOOT IT. And yes that goes for LRMs too. You can direct fire LRMs with LoS.

Pretty satisfying to see the damage indicator flash, and know that you made that shot connect unassisted IMO. Or maybe it's that the majority of players are used to easymode lock-on loadouts, and can't actually connect with ballistics or lasers? For people with ping/FPS issues...your time will come, have patience.

This is just the START of EW(that's Electronic Warfare if you didn't know). More to come folks! Like Targeting Computers! Oh MAN i can just imagine the river of QQ if that little piece of gear got implemented. C3 with master and slave units? I can only hope.

PGI TAKE HEART!!!
About half the feedback i am seeing is "QQ RAGE ITS OP!" and the other half is "THIS IS AWESOME GEAR I LOVE IT!" so you probably have it pretty close to where it should be. Keep up the good work!!

The problem is not locking is not being able to see what section of the mech is damaged...I always strip the guns off atla's first then core them....however i cannot target the mechs to even see whats still there, whats red, or whatever...its frustrating, and its already become D-DC/ecm fest. I cant imagine 8man drops being much fun at the moment...

[Xendojo]

xXBagheeraXx, on 04 December 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

The problem is not locking is not being able to see what section of the mech is damaged...I always strip the guns off atla's first then core them....however i cannot target the mechs to even see whats still there, whats red, or whatever...its frustrating, and its already become D-DC/ecm fest. I cant imagine 8man drops being much fun at the moment...

Not having the targeting info does not stop you from shooting, just makes it harder to know if you hit your target. Information warfare is part of EW. This is not G.I. Joe, knowing is only like 1/4 of the battle. Again....if you can see it, YOU CAN SHOOT IT.

Edited by Xendojo, 04 December 2012 - 06:20 PM.

[MuFasa]

Matches today have been lasting longer. I have seen more teamplay. And I have mostly pug'ed I am able to use my streaks, and in an ECM equipped mech been targeted and hit by streaks and LRM's. It has simply taken away the mindless spam of some of these weapons. It's forcing coordination. Im not certain how that's a bad thing. I have had matches where I have sat behind a ridge just the top of my ECM mech sticking up and tagged mech after mech to watch them die by LRM fire. I have taken my light into the midst of an ECM bubble swapped it to counter mode and watched them all head for buildings and things to get behind. I have had to "dogfight" other light mechs toggling my ECM back and forth between modes to engage other ECM equipped mechs. I have had games today that I have had to put more thought into than any other day. And I have gathered enough Jenner pilots tears to fuel my raven for a solid month

All in all a good day.

[Stingz]

Since this is beta:
Buy COM-2D (under 2m C-Bills), modify as you like (definitely get ECM), test the effects of ECM/ECCM (J to switch Disruptor/Counter modes)


I cannot say the Commando will survive any amount of return fire, but it's good as a cheap light mech. With ECM and it's small size it's likely to never be spotted. ECM in counter mode also lets you use streaks again (activate only when ECM is near).

[xXBagheeraXx]

I actually did look up the Gecm suits in the battletech wiki...they ARE pretty close to canon except for the counterjam etc....My idea was simply something borrowed from another game, and for balance issues was where i got my idea from...no it may not be canon, but for the sake of getting us out of ECM/D-DC fest i think it should work like my earlier suggestion.

[WarOrk]

xXBagheeraXx, on 04 December 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

The problem is not locking is not being able to see what section of the mech is damaged...I always strip the guns off atla's first then core them....however i cannot target the mechs to even see whats still there, whats red, or whatever...its frustrating, and its already become D-DC/ecm fest. I cant imagine 8man drops being much fun at the moment...

They are NOT fun right now. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm going back to solo/PUG drops in the hopes I can find a "fair" match that isn't 6 D-DC Atlases + 2 other ECM versus the same, less my ECM-less builds.

I guess I can't complain that I just so happen to have NOT ONE build in my mech stables that is ECM capable, but I shouldn't be FORCED into building an ECM capable mech just to compete...

[xXBagheeraXx]

Xendojo, on 04 December 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Not having the targeting info does not stop you from shooting, just makes it harder to know if you hit your target. Information warfare is part of EW. This is not G.I. Joe, knowing is only like 1/4 of the battle. Again....if you can see it, YOU CAN SHOOT IT.

I DONT LIKE TO SIMPLY SHOOT MY TARGETS...i surgically carve my opponents to pieces if i have the time to aim...even in a brawl i like to pick a section of a mech with the most offending weapon or the most damage and keep on it....Kind of hard to do without targeting info..THAT is my complaint. My favorite mech is a 5 Laser awesome...you dont mindlessly spam your opponents with that loadout, your surgically carve them to pieces.....

[Sudden Reversal]

No, lights are a nightmare to deal with now since you can't get a lock. I am a pulse laser user for the most part but trying to hit multiple warping lights is just plain nuts.

As another Aussie with 250-300 ping, Lights are a lesson in frustration.

Collisions need to be back in, or netcode needs to be fixed...preferably both because atm it's just plain stupid

Edited by Sudden Reversal, 04 December 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[Fenturi]

I HATE the change to ECM!!!!!!!

You have taken the fun level down a lot for me. One of the most frustrating aspects is when some light mech is running around you shooting you in the back faster than your large mech can turn, protected by lag shield even when you do see him.

So the ssrm was the only thing that would hit.. now they do not lock. Might as well remove them from the game as well as the advanced AC5, 25% chance of jam even on the first shot.. what a joke.. look at your data everyone just pulled them.

Now I just get fried with lasers from mech's I can see but not target in a LRM based mech... throw them away as well.

I think the DEVS NEED TO BE FORCED TO PLAY 100 MECHS at 48KPH for a MONTH.

You guys have changed the balance of power so much that I feel like the CASH money I spent supporting your game has been wasted on the large mechs, and this game will just be groups of small mech's with ECM.

It already is...

You need to at least make it so if I can SEE the mech in a direct fire way I can get a lock... OR let me hand aim and fire the missiles like a AC2...having a weapon that NEEDS a lock to shoot then adding ECM effectively means everyone will just not play with them

Also smaller mechs need to have HARDPOINTS REDUCED. The fire power of a small mech with 8 med lasers, being able to do a 40 point punch is way way overpowered.

Seriously I know you guys are playing small mechs, the changes to the game show it.. play the 100 ton mechs in a few games and watch what happens when you die tiny mechs.

I'd love to see the stats on how many mechs drop missiles in the next week, and how many people stop playing the mechs with a lot of missile hard points.

Bottom line, the game is less fun now.

[Xendojo]

xXBagheeraXx, on 04 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

I DONT LIKE TO SIMPLY SHOOT MY TARGETS...i surgically carve my opponents to pieces if i have the time to aim...even in a brawl i like to pick a section of a mech with the most offending weapon or the most damage and keep on it....Kind of hard to do without targeting info..THAT is my complaint. My favorite mech is a 5 Laser awesome...you dont mindlessly spam your opponents with that loadout, your surgically carve them to pieces.....

And what is stopping you from doing that now? You can aim right? New mechanics mean adapt or die.

Something that changes the way you play? OMG OP!!! BROKEN!!!! NERF!!! HOTFIX!!!
EDIT: And whats really bad you are in a laser boat and still QQ about ECM? come on dude...
EDIT#2: Still loving my HBK-4J LRM boat! Adapt and overcome.

Edited by Xendojo, 04 December 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Xendojo, on 04 December 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

And what is stopping you from doing that now? You can aim right? New mechanics mean adapt or die.

Something that changes the way you play? OMG OP!!! BROKEN!!!! NERF!!! HOTFIX!!!

EDIT: Still loving my HBK-4J LRM boat! Adapt and overcome.

Im talking to a brick wall....Jesus...


A very DUMB brick wall...

Did i ever once say nerf them? Did you ever once see me say OMG NERF FIX? I simply put up suggestions FOR THE SAKE OF GAMEPLAY that would keep the usefulness of ecm mechs, but not completely ruin the fun of the game.....When an additon in a game completely ruins the fun of the point to where people dont want to play, you have issues...in most other games i play with the ecm suit, it does NOT work like this...my suggestion would make it helpful, but not gamebreaking like it is now.

Edited by xXBagheeraXx, 04 December 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[Xendojo]

xXBagheeraXx, on 04 December 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

Im talking to a brick wall....Jesus...


A very DUMB brick wall...

Ok dude, your subjective experience with the lack of targeting info is exactly that. SUBJECTIVE! You are complaining that something that is working as intended is hampering your playstyle. Guess what? You just might have to change your playstyle. Playstyle is a CHOICE, and has nothing to do with balance.

Edited by Xendojo, 04 December 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[ltwally]

ECM needs a giant nerf bat taken to it. I just crawled up a Raven's ****** region for a solid 90 seconds, and was utterly unable to get a lock on my S-SRM's.

Make it take longer to lock... fine.
Reduce effective range... fine.
Increase miss-change.... fine.

But impossible to lock at close range, period? With a 1.5 tonne piece of equipment, that does other cool stuff on top of that?

That's beyond over-powered.

When you've got one piece of equipment that so radically changes the game, you know you have a problem.

[Arcturious]

So you like to shoot weapons off arms and you can't even see when the arm has fallen off the Atlas and is a smoking wreck 100m behind him? You're going to keep shooting where the arm used to be because you don't have a tooltip telling you you blew the arm off? Sigh.

[Dakross]

Variants of the Catapult w/LRM and/or SSRM

LRM's got 2 shots off due to enemy mechs closing under minimum range too quickly
SSRM's unuseable unless a non-ecm mech wanders out of the herd
Beagle made no difference

Suggest allowing SSRM's to be fired without lock and behaving like regular SRM's if they don't have lock.
Suggest lowering minimum range for LRM's if closing is the intended behavior, or giving an item to cancel ECM if it is not.


I found my missile catapult builds relying solely on their small laser weapons. So much so that I removed the LRM's and upgraded to large lasers. I built a hybrid laser/SSRM C4 to combat the OP lights, which is now pretty much useless. With the additional lag introduced in this patch can't hit with the pulse and can't even fire the SSRM's with direct line of site.


Edit: Also the matches seem to be more of "ECM Blob race to the base" instead of combat

Edited by Dakross, 04 December 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Xendojo, on 04 December 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Ok dude, your subjective experience with the lack of targeting info is exactly that. SUBJECTIVE! You are complaining that something that is working as intended is hampering your playstyle. Guess what? You just might have to change your playstyle. Playstyle is a CHOICE, and has nothing to do with balance.

The surgeon/sniper is only ONE play-style I use...I like to ninja behind enemy lines with my dragon/Srm cat as well....but that playstyile is completely gone at the moment when i cant even detect ANY enemies at all..as others have said. As others have said its basically one blob of Ecm rushing towards another blob and THAT is not fun. And i refuse to believe your having any fun in an LRM hunchback at the moment. unless your in an 8man premade with nothing else but D-DC atlases on your side...pug a few games or drop with a 4 man..your experience will change drastically....My complaint is the ONLY viable "play-style" is blob vs blob, may the best ECM win....if that's your idea of adapt or die, then more power to you...but i have played better...