2028 replies to this topic

[Lupin]

>The weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM.
>The behaviour that weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM..

Get flicker when jammed and can not lock as listed under ECM use.
BUT can not change mode "J" does not work. Also key not listed in keyboard configure?
Can anyone else change mode?

>A suggested change (increase/decrease) to the ECM stats to improve balance.

ECM field to big suggest 100m.

[Chase Phoenix]

Thread successfully hijacked by obvious troll.

Well done, sir. (insert golf-clap here)

All sarcasm aside, lets ignore the troll, let him rot in inattention, and get back on topic please. Not that I have an opinion on the topic yet (I have yet to try out ECM), I just dislike trolls.

Continue, please.

[Axcend]

Played a few matches since the ECM was added. It is a complete game changer. It bricks every single mech that uses missiles since I have yet to find a game that doesn't have 3+ people without an ECM. On that note, you might as well remove Jenners from the game since they are useless now.

As much as I love huddling around teammates with my 300XL engine, I now get to sell my mech and start all over for the 3rd time. Raven 3L is now the overpowered mech, so everyone buy one quick!

In order to balance the ECM, I HIGHLY recommend that you give the capability to every single mech. Merely because of how ridiculously powerful it can be. ECM vs non ECM = non ECM loses EVERY SINGLE TIME.

SELL MISSILES, BUY LASERS QUICK!

[Garrath]

Really for it's tiny investment in tons/crits it does way too much. If it stuck with the TT application of disabling the other 'advanced add-ons' like artemis etc it'd be just fine, and appropriate. The aoe invisibility seems completely out of place, as is the fact that you can have a clear LOS to target and not lock, i'm sure mech targetting systems included optical/laser/thermal/etc that would be unaffected.

[Snuglninja]

I love the post o team work. Really?lrm op ssrm op and you yell team work? In a 8 man group neither is op ecm is it's bs. it's not battletech cannon no way near and its a game breaker sorry. Yeah I know my raven just won 100000 games. Who gives a ....There is no reason to play any thing other then a ecm variant end of discusion. So that makes it a game breaker. Simple fixs... make it tt close, make EW a hard point and put it on a small % of mechs like the raven.

[LtPoncho]

Fiachdubh, on 05 December 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

It reminds me of the old MW4 days of units using EW to sneak around and ambush opponents. I like it.

Maps we're much bigger, dude. There's 2 or 3 places max per map to hide and everyone knows them intimately because there's only 4 maps. I like you post because I wish it were different and you could ninja more.

[HarmAssassin]

Anyone that has spent any time in these forums, knows that since the previous patch I've been pretty vocal in saying that LRMs and SSRMs were a bit OP... so keep that in mind as you read this:

I like having ECMs in the game, but at the moment I do believe they need a downward tweak. I have two suggestions on how to do this, either:

1. Reduce the diameter of the protective bubble from 180m to let's say... 90m.

or

2. Keep the range 180m, but instead of totally preventing weapon locks, have it instead increase the miss chance of each individual missile (or group). So that if without ECM 80% hit, with ECM perhaps 40% hit. Or something along those lines.

Another option may be to have the effects scale with range. At the outer edge of the bubble, the effects are less than if the ECM is 2m away.

I LOVE ECMs, I just think that as is they do what they do just a little too well.

And keep in mind this is coming from a guy who spend the last week railing against LRMs/SSRMs...

Just saying...

Edited by HarmAssassin, 05 December 2012 - 01:57 PM.

[Motomoto]

ecm have a 100% cloak on the carryer and hes teammates. it should only decrease every targeting with 25%.

thats a huge bug get it fixed.
english is not my native laguage so my spelling is crap.

[Pataine]

Finally gonna get in on this topic.

The Guardian Ecm suite nullifies the affects an enemy Beagel Active Probe (though it would notice it is being jammed) Artemis fire control systems, Narc missle beacon or C3 Computer when that unit is WITH-IN 6 hexes (or 180 meters) of a Gaurdian equiped UNIT. Friendly sysems are not affect by the unit.
A Guardian nullifies these systems even when not directed at the Guardian equiped UNIT. It also works when the path of the enemy system pass with 6 hexes (180 meters) of the Guardian.

This is from the BatteTechCompendium p. 120. It says nothing about an area affect protecting mulitple targets it is only supposed to work on the Mech it is equiped on and only out to 180 meters. It says nothing about long range sensors not working, LRM's not getting a lock on or Streaks not being able to lock. Streaks even within the 6 hexes (180 meter) are supposed to fire as normal SRM'sThis is for short range close quarters combat.

From the Tactical Handbook p63 as follows - Angel Ecm Suite does all the above and affects Streaks but only if they are with the before mention 6 hexs (180 meters).

Change it to how it is supposed to work on that mech only and only out to 180 meters.

[Elric von Rabenfels]

Schlaung, on 05 December 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Definitely not. ECM is the best thing that's happened to this game in months. This is a team game and ECM can be easily countered if you play it as such.

This sums my feelings up pretty much.

Finally, I can get in close enough to do what I'm best at: Brawling.
Even in my slow Atlas. Loving the ECM.
Maybe tone the disruption of the opponents down a bit, but the detection range reduction NEEDS to stay.

[Elder Thorn]

DaffyGKH, on 05 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

>Game is perfect.

before ECM everyone was yelling that Streakcats need the nerfbat, not even talking about all the other catapult related stuff.
Personally i would even consider all the crashes and stuff to break the term "Game is perfect", but i think you left those out...

Still... when was this game perfect?

[neviu]

People always tend to whine when their precious builds are not op anymore, its human nature,,,

[Pando]

ECM is great where it is. It's made BAD players WORSE.

Saying nerf ECM is like saying NERF teamwork.

Get better at the game, that is all.

[Joanna Conners]

Jakob Knight, on 05 December 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

Let's see. Use a third-party program to be able to play a game. VIOP that only work -after- you have dropped into a game.

Yeah, that satisfied the requirement that players be able to find other players and work out groups -inside the game-.

Point me to the in-game, out of combat chat that works to let you find a group, and I'll accept that I'm wrong. If you can't, then all I have said stands.

You're incapable of talking to people on the forums or people you meet in-game? I'm sorry, do your T and Y buttons not work? Is your keyboard broken? You can't remember people's names to friend them?

Wow.

[neviu]

Pando, on 05 December 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

ECM is great where it is. It's made BAD players WORSE.

Saying nerf ECM is like saying NERF teamwork.

Get better at the game, that is all.

Totaly agree!

[Brothergrimm]

I like the increased tactics and brawling ECM has added so far, but it needs more interactions with other e-war gear.

By which I mean, especially with the planned 750m range on TAG laser, the intent is to have ECM as scissors, TAG as rock. The problem is everything else right now is just paper; or worse.

• 360 Target retention module? Mostly negated by ECM.
  
• Target information gathering speed module? Negated by ECM.
  
• Beagle? Totally negated by ECM.
  
• LRMs? Negated by ECM (unless combined with Tag).
  
• NARC? Negated by ECM.

I may have forgotten things, but especially given the prized position and expense of modules, ECM seems to have a long checklist of things which it hard-counters, and a list of just two (ECM itself and TAG) which counter it.


It also seems ECM could endure some nerfs and still be plenty strong, so I propose some more interesting interactions with ECM and other gear that would make the game more interesting while better balancing the other equipment and modules vs ECM.

For example(s):

A beagle equipped mech can target enemies under ECM, but at reduced range, and with reduced targeting speed. They can still not relay this targeting information to allies if they are within the ECM disrupt bubble, themselves.

NARC allows hit targets to be targeted normally for the duration under a disrupt ECM bubble, but for a reduced duration or potency.

360 degree target retention could become 300 degree target retention under ECM.

Target information gathering speed module partially negates the ECM penalty.

As a side note, having ECM be its own counter (disrupt vs counter modes) seems to invite overuse. I'd like to see something like a Disrupt mode that works about like it currently does (but with the above suggested interactions diminishing its power a little) but instead of a "counter" mode a "project" mode, which would create false radar positives around the mech using it. This would enable an ECM mech to either cloak itself and allies or to create feints by misleading the other team about the location of the opposing force. This would prevent the arms race of "How to counter ECM? Bring more ECM!!", and would help emphasize Beagle use, visual scouting, etc.

[Snib]

Motomoto, on 05 December 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

ecm have a 100% cloak on the carryer and hes teammates. it should only decrease every targeting with 25%.

thats a huge bug get it fixed.
english is not my native laguage so my spelling is crap.

That's why you misunderstood the patch notes. it reduces targeting range TO 25%, not BY 25%. And that's working correctly.

[Styges]

New player here (myself and friends have been playing for about a month) and a very disheartened Centurion pilot to boot.

From a newer player perspective ECM is making the game a lot less fun to play. Almost every game just involves one side completly ghosting the other using mass ECM and steam rolling them or just rushing to base cap with a mass of lights. Being in a non ECM equipped mech (such as any of the trial mechs) is an exercise in waiting for death now. Some people have said it's a game changer, well yes it is, but it's changed the game into a three option choice a) huddle around your ECM equipped Atlas friends, get an ECM mech yourself, c) be killed and loose match.
I liked the suggestion earlier of having the ECM just covering the mech it's equipped with or a second verion that covers mechs within say 150 meters but leaves the carrying mech fully visable. Alternatively/concurrently maybe have the ECM's effects be blanket, effecting both friendly and enemy mechs equally. That way you can gain a level of stealth and protection from enemy fire by being in a friendly ECM zone, but the down side is you yourself can't use lock on weapons or target enemies at range...

I freely admit I'm too inexperienced to offer a balanced solution at this point, but my point that it's unbalancing the game and forcing players to play only one way in order to be effective stands. I know I could just buy a Commando and join the 'fun' but I won't for the same reason I didn't buy a Streakpult - I'm a medium piot who likes a nice balanced mech that fits in with the stories I read as a kid.

[senaiboy]

I've been in Beta for a couple months now so I'm not a newbie anymore, and I love what the ECM brings to the battlefield, certainly add a new side to the battle. But it needs a major tweaking.

The targeting-disable and radar-disable bubble are ridiculous. As above, I've been in matches where both sides are brawling blind with ECMs on both sides - we can't see who's around us, we can't see which target to concentrate on.

BAP has been rendered useless and the ECM hides the whole group making scouting ineffective without direct communication (chat or teamspeak). Unfortunately PUGs don't use TS and one can't type and move at the same time.

And the ECM Commando with 3 SSRMs will win against any non-ECM light mechs, as lasers have lower DPS than SSRMs.

Seriously, look into the suggestions in this thread, there are some great ones.

Edited by senaiboy, 05 December 2012 - 02:28 PM.

[Grim Omens]

Forgive me for being lazy (not fully reading all the pages to see if this was brought up) and ignorant but, I find two major turn offs with the ECM. Furthermore, because key components of the game are being implemented I find that ECM could have been postponed until proper counters were implemented.

The first major turn off is the inability for offensive strikes with LRMs or Streaks to be successfully used. I am not an LRM or Streak Pilot by no means, I just find that those two supportive roles can change the game and by renderring these weopens ineffective and it forces more groups to be selective. With that much said lets look at a few selective groups that I have ran across and absolutely ROFL stomped my 8 man premade. 8 D-DC Atlas's... Each one had ECM and they were all a shotgun type build. SRM 4 and SRM 6 with either a Guass, LB-10X, or AC 20. Each atlas had an ECM and between the eight of them they could completely blot out any opposing ECM lance. Needless to say they also had raw firepower, and armour; in turn, they base rushed every time and there was literally nothing you could do to stop them. Why? Because no LRMs could sit on a single target due to their massive cloak field and walking onto the base point to stop them from capping was absolute slaughter. Now this is an 8 man.. Imagine what happens when we throw in 12 man Lances and this issue is still prominent.

The next major turn off is the toggle feature; an effective ECM pilot will use this to their advantage with strategic pushes and tactical retreats to gain the advantage. Sounds fine and dandy right? Well the issue is that there is NO COOLDOWN on the ECM. The only solution I can see to reinstitute a more well rounded match-up is by having two seperate ECM components. Each ECM component will last a duration of 7 seconds and after that duration has ended there is a cooldown of 10 seconds. Even then, this may be considered generous for most pilots. Now, make it so that the correct mechs have only ONE, yes ONE... *dramatic pause* ... ECM hardpoint. Essentially this forces less cookie cutter lances and promotes a more tier like role for select lances; which in turn is how I feel the series has run its course - intelligence gathering first then deploy tactical strategies.

Furthermore, the question comes up as to -WHY- only one Raven mech has the ECM hardpoint. Lore wise, game wise and even general consensus (from what I have gathered) Ravens... ALL RAVENS should have ECM capabilities; it is their role, intelligence gathering.

In essence I feel that ECM is a valuable game changer but was implemented at the wrong time or not fully thought through. I would prefer for a major change to either take place with the ECM or a better counter towards ECM.. SOMETHING that would be a progessive step in gameplay and diversity within mech usage. This update was a regressive step, and coming from a brawler or gauss user (in which this should have been heaven) I can't help but feel the game moved in the wrong direction.