2028 replies to this topic

[Skirich]

PUG problems with ECM?
maybe solution is (due to lack of iname voice contact) Battlefield-stile inform-allies button like "q" was in BF?
It will solve many problems. r to target - q to inform and place marker on map only. Maybe context menu like BF 2142 "need help" "enemy here" and marker on map. Or providing contermeasures to ECM for more mech types and make ecm affect on allied units. It will ease PUGging to a bit of role and information share, but ecm will be still good in interfering targeting and infformation disruption.

p.s. Actually - i like the ECM as it implemented now - boom - and you are trying to guess who is your allies in this mess.) But since PUG matchmaker is obscured - it is qite a sad to bee somtime the one and only who do some damage at the enemy team under ECM suppresion. And hit detection is more "corean random" now due to additional ECM-applied calculations and traffic.

Edited by Skirich, 05 December 2012 - 03:57 AM.

[Jiiri]

Quote

I would suggest:
- Undo the cloaking effect of the ECM - the gameplay and versatility suffered a lot under it.
(Mechs can be targetted and locked on)
- ECM should: negate BAP, Artemis, Narc. It should enhance the lock-on time for some seconds (maybe 3). It should blurr the minimap / tactical map, leading to confusion there. Range 180m.
- That is still a good deal for its weight.

I do think ECM effects the game in a negative way in its current form. The bonusses are too good, and makes ECM a must. The setups tend to be all ECM Mechs with the Atlas-DC being the main piece. LRMs and Streaks, teamplay as focus fire, spotting enemy Mechs by scouts are all rendered quite worthless and ineffective.

I would like to see the ECM in game, but with not such a devestating effect to game play. It should be good, it should have nice benefits, enhance game- and teamplay, but without 1. being a must have, 2. completely nullifying another weapon system

Therefore 2 other suggestions additional to these stated above:

- ECM should hide the weapon config when getting targetted. Range 180m bubble.
- ECM cloaks your own Mech only for detection at a range of 400+ m. So it is possible to stand at a heightened position and spot without being able to be targetted.
- if you want to even give it more power, how about an electronic blurr all 2 to 3 seonds on your screen for enemies within 180m range - it blurrs the vision, and makes aiming / playing harder, but not totally negates targetting/locking

- my favourite: you can give it to certain Mech chassis - hell, even the Atlas: but when you want to install an ECM, it is only possible to have it built in in a certain configuration, and you can't modify anything else. Wow, I hear a lot of "what the heck" screams - but by doing so, you will enforce that original Mechs, which are not custom tuned, are once again being played.

[Justa Dogtrooper]

Dr Killinger, on 04 December 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

As an Atlas DC pilot who dropped with only one team mate this evening, I can confirm that I have never had PUG mechs so tightly pressed against my mech in my entire time in MWO!

hope you had protection..giggety.

[Doc Moriarti]

The ECM is good idea in bad use (sorry for my poor english)

1º In the past...you down the damage for the LRM for the additions in modules and the artemis system; ok is good.
2º You dont restore the collision pishyc...the light mechs are in the heaven but for heavys and assault is a very big problem beacuse only the streaks can "cacht" the lights.
3º You introduce the ECM overpower system and this unbalance the game because now the "battles" are only a 200 metres...

In my opinion this drive to play into a specific form of fight and destroy the variety of the game.

Ups...i forget: can you devolve the xp, time and cbills that use in the useless sensor systems, target info
and 360 target retention?

Sorry for my poor english again and continuig working in this very big and complex project but wonderful

Best regards

Edited by Doc Moriarti, 05 December 2012 - 04:31 AM.

[God of War]

The current effects of ECM simply crush the game balance again. like every other feature PGI brings to the game
it hast obviously not been testet properly. The whole gameplay has been thrown back to big huddels, direct-fire weapon
(Gauss & UAC5, cause the others are just not worth it) and camping. congratz, great work
Not to mention the terrible situation it creates in the 4 Premade + PUG matchings.

LRM are now not worth a penny anymore, BAP and the Sensore Modul are just waste of money...
Ohh gosch, if you keep coming new features a broken as you have been till now this game will die a cruel death...

[Teralitha]

ECM. Effectively destroys the information warfare concept. At least this implementation of it does.


I know PGI was going for a TT version of ECM, but I think I can safely say, thats its not going to work here. There is a reason why previous mechwarrior games never did it like the tabletop....

Because it doesnt work. You did right by only putting it on a limited number of chassis. However, now because of how powerful it is, every premade match is... group of ECM Atlas DDC, mixed with ECM ravens and cicadas, and the only way to compete with that... is do the same thing.

It completely throws tactics out the window and now every match is a 100% in your face brawl or baserush under the stealth of ECM. Missles and streaks have become nearly non existent because ECM makes them totally useless.

I suggest PGI look at the ECM implementations of previous mechwarrior titles to see how they solved the imbalance and made it work, because even a nerfed version of this ECM still wont work.

Radar... I like how PGI made radar... with the current implementation of radar you can still be stealthy using cover or angles of approach, it took skill to do this. But now with ECM, it takes no skill whatsoever, and not only that, but your whole team can sneak around with you. If this is how its gonna be, then radar needs to be changed to a full 360, detection, disregardling LOS to help balance ECM.

For Niko - Change both ECM and BAP to the MW4 version of both and everything will be fine. That is my suggestion. Attempting to tweak this implementation of ECM will only fail. Better to use something that is already proven. And yes I did suggest this before... long ago, probably before your design team started working on it.

Edited by Teralitha, 05 December 2012 - 04:35 AM.

[sarkun]

I like the ECM - had a few (PUG) matches where both teams had some ECM mechs, and brawling was more fun because you wouldn't know where the enemy were - ambushes and flank attacks by fast mechs - cool!

However, since the patch, the only mechs that carry LRMs are the trial HBK-4Js. This is not cool - the only support weapon we have is now unusable. I've removed AMS from my mechs, even though I do not run ECM myself.

And I still think that for it's weight and size, the ECM is waaaaay too powerful. It's definitely the most powerful item right now... and it weights less than 2 heatsinks.

EDIT:
oh, and I think that NARC should be able to counter ECM as well - it's pretty useless now, might as well give all those missile hardpoints some use.

Edited by sarkun, 05 December 2012 - 04:51 AM.

[Wildhound]

I think ECM has made it impossible to PUG, which means I can't play anymore.

I'll spend a little more time trying to figure out some way to adapt so that I can still PUG, but I've lost 8 games straight now which never happened before, so it's not looking good.

Just had my AS7-D-DC taken out by 2 GECM Ravens. Without streaks, I can't think of anything I could have done to stop them. Ah well.

Edited by Wildhound, 05 December 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[Thunderhawk1]

I had played some matches and at this time, the ECM is OP. Pug groups have now no chances against a 3-4 man Premade team with ECM. They mus change a lot of things from the ECM to get it Balanced or they must make a Counterpart against ECMs, but Available fur all Chassis. At this time, the ECM is a "must have" item for those who can carry it.

[Fiachdubh]

It reminds me of the old MW4 days of units using EW to sneak around and ambush opponents. I like it.

[Sudden Reversal]

Why are we seeing the Angel ECM now, rather than Guardian ECM as we should be?

PGI dropped the ball on this one.

[Teralitha]

sarkun, on 05 December 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

I like the ECM - had a few (PUG) matches...

End read.

Fiachdubh, on 05 December 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

It reminds me of the old MW4 days of units using EW to sneak around and ambush opponents. I like it.

This ECM is nothing like it was in MW4. Fail...

[Derk Talon]

Jiiri, on 05 December 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

I do think ECM effects the game in a negative way in its current form. The bonusses are too good, and makes ECM a must. The setups tend to be all ECM Mechs with the Atlas-DC being the main piece. LRMs and Streaks, teamplay as focus fire, spotting enemy Mechs by scouts are all rendered quite worthless and ineffective.

I would like to see the ECM in game, but with not such a devestating effect to game play. It should be good, it should have nice benefits, enhance game- and teamplay, but without 1. being a must have, 2. completely nullifying another weapon system

Therefore 2 other suggestions additional to these stated above:

- ECM should hide the weapon config when getting targetted. Range 180m bubble.
- ECM cloaks your own Mech only for detection at a range of 400+ m. So it is possible to stand at a heightened position and spot without being able to be targetted.
- if you want to even give it more power, how about an electronic blurr all 2 to 3 seonds on your screen for enemies within 180m range - it blurrs the vision, and makes aiming / playing harder, but not totally negates targetting/locking

- my favourite: you can give it to certain Mech chassis - hell, even the Atlas: but when you want to install an ECM, it is only possible to have it built in in a certain configuration, and you can't modify anything else. Wow, I hear a lot of "what the heck" screams - but by doing so, you will enforce that original Mechs, which are not custom tuned, are once again being played.

I agree with this, except for the "favourite". Customising is one of the great selling points. Making ecm more powerfull by having it disable your mechbay too won't work

Also i would like to add another suggestion:

- ECM protected mechs (however it will be implemented finally) will become lockable when they actively lock someone else. I base this on the assumption that to achieve a lock, one must actively use a radar, wich in turn can be backtracked to its source.

[Complex Lain]

WOW All worship the ECM "The Game Killer"

I just got out of playing a match with 5 DC Atlas's 1 Hunchie, Raven and Cat - Got absolutely annihilated. Playing 8 man teams is now a case of who's got the most ECM's.

No more Tactics, Self Determination or Skill, just huddle close to a Atlas DC or scout and wander through the battlefield!

Sorry but in most games I have played the ECM is a reactive pod ie you activate it if/when you feel you are under attack not have a constant umbrella - definitely believe that a lot of refinement is needed here.

[Elvira]

Ok, most of the changes I don't mind, because they are implemented because people are abusing them.

Now ECM the main problem with ECM is if you are suppose to still be able to lock on, and all weapons with no effects streaks still work missiles with and with out artemis. Once inside the 180m range streaks fire like normal SRMs dummy fire, artemis isn't suppose to work, it also disrupts the C3 communication network and Narc becon..

and this is for all forms of ECM, Guardian angel, and Clan ECM. It never prevents the lock you can allows shoot, it doesn't even add to the difficulty of shoot your target.

This is one of the few things that I believe that should have remained cannon. This isn't some rant this is a complaint because it has taken missiles out of the game. The 8 v 8s will have so much ECM that LRMs are useless.

Moved this one here also posted this in another thread.

[Slivinhotsverg]

Everyone was whining about streaks and LRM being OP and now they introduce an effective counterbalance. For myself, first impressions are great. I ran 5 PUGs last night and won every one in a commando 2D, consistently getting top 3.

It definitely is a game changer. It will nullify some existing strategies sure. What will be interesting is how the balance settles. Whats clear is that some of the low hanging fruit has been taken away so stop your belly aching and figure out how counter ECM effectively. The emergent tactics of camping and sneaking will only take groups so far... so whats next.

Oh and I think that if you want to nerf it make it generate heat. Enough that you need to heat sink the hell out of it or you will only be able to run it selectively. This makes the ECM use much more strategic.

Edited by Slivinhotsverg, 05 December 2012 - 05:11 AM.

[Bocika]

ECM is totally overpowered now. I am not sure if it is bugged or not, but it seems to have too much range (more than 180m). the 75% range reduction for locks is too much, i would say 50% is more than enough.
Also the matchmaking should sort ECM mechs to every group. Yesterday i played a game with 4 ECM mechs and then 4 other games with no ECM at all. My win ratio with pugs is approx 50%, but yesterday i was only able to win with ECM mechs in my group. So it means that skill was replaced by ECM which is not good at all.

[Entropia]

Yeah, it's completely OP. Not because it makes missiles useless (although that is a part of it), but because superiority in ECM numbers guarantees victory. If your team has no ECM and the enemy has even one, you are bloody well ****** (even moreso if they've got more than one). There is no way to counter ECM without superior numbers of ECM. ECM shuts down all co-operation, targeting and lrm support, and there is no counter to it aside from another ECM. This is not fluid gameplay. There is no strategy here, either for ECM, or against it. It's an utterly broken mechanic.

It also makes variants massively unbalanced, since the ones with an ECM slot have no drawbacks. There is literally no reason to use any variant of a mech that doesn't have an ECM slot, or to pilot an ECM-mech without one. This is most blatant with the Atlas D-DC. The DC already had the advantage of 3 missile slots over other variants, and now an ECM on top of it? What the hell gais.

Guess I'll be taking a break from MWO for a while.

[Zwietracht]

after a few rounds using a 3l raven with ecm my feedback is - it is a great! maybe the range should be modified to 120-150m. but how it works and what it effects it is really a great addition to the game and has a heavy impact on the game.

p.s. if i just speak as a raven pilot - i really love it! jenners & streak kittys fear my wrath for so many annoying rounds you gave me!

Edited by Zwietracht, 05 December 2012 - 05:33 AM.

[Demnos]

Not sure if someone mentioned this already. Has anyone else had the issue where you cannot lock an ECM mech even though you have it tagged? I was tagging a Raven at 350m and I was not under the influence of ECM (no indicator on the right of the screen at least). I saw that he was tagged because I was able to target him and saw that tag symbol on his target indicator. I was not able to get a missile locking reticle at all though. This was on Frozen City. He was standing at the cave entrance just sitting there with his ECM on (according to his target info) and I was on a building just sitting there. I tagged him for a good 10 seconds and never got a missile reticle. Not sure if this is a bug or how it is supposed to work...