2028 replies to this topic

[Sym]

...like only having four mechs that can hold an ECM?

[Big Bad Wulf]

DeaconW, on 11 December 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

That's completely disingenuous and I suspect you know it. Try holding TAG on a target in a moving battle inside 450m without getting thrashed. In fact, why don't you post a video demonstrating this amazingly successful way to defeat ECM...we would love to be educated.

I have seen this in several drops I was in. it takes actual skill and coordination to execute, unlike sitting back and waiting for a lock and pressing a button. Btw we were the ones who got tagged. they did not get trashed because they worked as a team.

Edited by Marcus Wulf, 11 December 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Murdalizer]

my favorite mech is my catapult c4 with 2 lrm 15s, 2 ssrms and 2mlas and a xl300 engine....i play it as close support, meaning i try and stay behind some friendlys and between 180 and 270 yards from the enemy, played like that, its deadly...now enter ECM....now in most games its useless.

so its goes from being deadly if played right to useless if someone chooses to mount an ECM which is a PASSIVE piece of equipment.....thank you PGI, could i pls have all the founders mc's i used on catapults refunded pls?


blabla use a TAG..well ill use a TAG laser when ECM takes up an enegy hardpoint as well.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Someone above mentioned placing ECM on a timer effect and c/d. If that simple change was made I'd have no problems with how it currently operates or the 4 current builds that can have one. Of course, 8 man teams would then simply run with 4 ECM-carrying mechs and coordinate their timers accordingly, but at least the teamwork aspect is improved.

[Yagrumbagrum]

ECM has pretty much made this game un-puggable to kill what free time I have. The world of having a family and still trying to squeeze in a game now and then doesn't allow for games where having the new hot item makes or break the game. I have tried to see if the game would settle down in the week since ECM came out and its only getting less fun. Time to find something else to try with limited time. But at least the die hards will love their game getting rid of casual gamers.

[Barrett Osis]

I still love ECM. Even when I run my missle boats. I still claim a high ratio of kills and a high damage value. Once you learn to work the opposing teams ECM bubble, it is all down hill for them.

My biggest complaint, is that ECM stops Streaks. It just didn't happen in the table top version.

Edited by Barrett Osis, 11 December 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[Kaziganthi]

Buzzkillin, on 04 December 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

With the announcement of the long tom, surrounding yourself around an Atlas wouldn't be a good idea either. Hopefully as things are added and balance changes are for the better, the game will improve/

How are you supposed to fire a longtom at an ecm protected group of mechs. You can't target them so therefor it is about as redundant as LRMs in the current climate.

[TheSteelRhino]

You know. Originally I had thought about logging in and trying to make a good case against ecm. But ....I am almost to the point of apathy right now. I've spent about 4 hours tonight playing both 8 man and 4 man groups.

Over and over and over, I'd see the same basic thing from 1 team or the other. Base rush. That's it. That's the new grand strategy.

oh there is some variation in the Pug/4man matches in the mech design. But for the most part it seems like that's it. How do we rush the cap. There is no creativity going on. Team play is "follow the ecm mech".

I've spent hours trying to come up with something different, oh different ideas and strategies do work...but not in 15 minutes, and not on these tiny little maps.

I cannot say how desperate I am becoming for December 18th and the next patch. May PGI please tone down ecm some to make it a little more realistic. Please, lets get some sort of matchmaking in large group drops. Please, may we have a different mode and some new maps.

[hgbek]

StUffz, on 11 December 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

But that is how ECMs are working small and effective. Why do you think that ECM equipment was not viable in 3025? becausy it was bulky and hitting critical zones tend effect regular board electronics?

If you look today, mobile ECM is not by that heavy as you assume.

I only have a German page where you can find samples of ECM which are used in todays modern warfare however depending on your vehicle it does not weigh much.

http://de.wikipedia....nma%C3%9Fnahmen

Check yourself how much a ECM can weigh.

Yes but in real life using ECM makes you a very bright beacon in a dark landscape and a magnet for many missiles with a home on jam mode. As in the current version of MW we have no jamming strobes nor missiles with home on jam capability, it follows that the current ECM implementation is flawed and has upset the game balance. Right now ECM has no downside and that is killing the game.

HGBEK
.

[Tolkien]

Xendojo, on 11 December 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

We need NARC to be adjusted for real-time play.

The timing mechanic on NARC should just be dropped altogether. Let the beacon stay active till whatever it is attached to gets blown off. And let the NARC'd mech be targeted normally under ECM. I think i have suggested this already in this thread.

Having another ECM be the only EFFECTIVE counter to ECM is not working. We need more options for this. TAG and BAP currently are NOT effective ECM counters. NARC in its current state is useless in PUGs, and difficult to make effective in a team setting. Getting rid of the timer on the beacon would IMO be a proper correction. TAG is having a range increase(rightly so, the operational window for TAG to be of use is way too small), so why not drop the timer on the NARC? Since the NARC was introduced i have seen it used once... and used it myself only once...on patch day when it was released. By the next day everyone had figured out it was useless. There are just too many better options for the tonnage.

Even now a week after the game-changer that was ECM release, I have still yet to see anyone use NARC to try to counter ECM. This should be a clear indicator that it needs adjustment.

Also make thermal vision a module already, ECM increased its value significantly.

Don't get me wrong i like ECM, and having to juggle ECM modes depending on the battle situation. But the other counters(NARC specifically) need to be adjusted away from TT rules for gameplay in a real-time game, just like everything(?) else.

I just wanted to point out the ECM page http://www.mwowiki.o...ermeasure_(ECM)

Note that NARC is not a counter (as you correctly said) but that is because

Quote

Narc beacons will stick to hidden Mechs, but they won’t provide their normal bonuses until the Mech leaves the ECM’s range.

This in itself is aligned with what the ECM should do, but combined with all of its other over the top buffs it is just too much.

To review - what we have here is a system that is able to have a 1.5 ton 2 slot piece of equipment counter

Artemis
BAP
Tag bonuses (and the whole system inside of 180m)
NARC - a system which takes more space, weighs more, requires real coordination and skill and has ammo.
other ECMs
LRM locks
SRM locks
general targeting info
relegate AMS to almost pointlessness
have no exploding ammo
generate no heat
cost less than a module by a factor of 15

Anyone who tells you that it 'just needs a tiny tweak' to be balanced is sadly probably unable to read

[PainStealer]

Damn I love ECM the way it is now. It highly motivated people to learn a tactic or two. Please don't change a thing.

[Windsaw]

PainStealer, on 12 December 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Damn I love ECM the way it is now. It highly motivated people to learn a tactic or two.

You are actually right here. Emphasis on "a tactic or two".

Before ECM I used at least six different tactics, all of which could lead to a successful game.
Now I am using one or two. All of the others make little sense anymore.
Not an improvement IMO.

[Tolkien]

Windsaw, on 12 December 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

You are actually right here. Emphasis on "a tactic or two".

Before ECM I used at least six different tactics, all of which could lead to a successful game.
Now I am using one or two. All of the others make little sense anymore.
Not an improvement IMO.

I'm glad you said it, since it's exactly the case. The state of the game right now is that a coherent strategy for a team will involve multiple ECMs, since it does so many things for so little cost it is just a no brainer. Added to the overpowered nature of current ECMs and the range of viable approaches has been narrowed.

To review once again - what we have here is a system that is able to have a 1.5 ton 2 slot piece of equipment counter

Artemis
BAP
Tag bonuses (and the whole system inside of 180m)
NARC - a system which takes more space, weighs more, requires real coordination and skill and has ammo.
other ECMs
LRM locks
SRM locks
general targeting info
relegate AMS to almost pointlessness
have no exploding ammo
generate no heat
cost less than a module by a factor of 15

Now thanks to pain whatever, someone who made an account just to post 'it is fine please don't change it' which means they are very likely a troll or sock puppet account I have to change what I say next to: "Anyone who tells you that it 'just needs a tiny tweak' to be balanced is sadly probably unable to read, and anyone who says it is fine the way it is probably has not thought through what these kinds of imbalanced items will do to the game."

[Sym]

I hate ECM not because of what it does, but how if forces people to play a certain way and that it makes many Mechs in my Mech Lab mostly useless.


Besides, I get tired of running my 3L or DDC.

[Daimonos]

We used to spend half a match hiding behind rocks to avoid LRMs. ECM has put a stop to that, which is good, but the cost has been severe. I agree with Sym: 8v8 games are coming down to 3-4 Atlas D-DC + 3-4 Raven 3L + maybe 1 or 2 others to taste. Mech diversity has plummeted.

As Tolkein points out, ECM is overpowered as it stands. It is dominating and defining the game. TAG is not a great counter: you have to hold the beam on target, locks are slow to acquire, and cannot be shared with team mates if you're in an enemy bubble. Because ECM stacks, ECM is the best counter to ECM - not TAG. The way to counter ECM, is to have more ECM than the enemy. It's exactly an arms race and not at all healthy as it stands. Extending TAG to 750m is a step in the right direction, but will not in itself go far enough.

ECM stacking is perhaps the greatest problem. Consider changing this. Breaking ECM into a number of pieces to be slotted via a new 'ECM' tab in mechbay is a good idea. Making BAP a counter, rather than a waste of tonnage would help.

[Xenok]

HTTP Error 400, on 11 December 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

The lack of one module type on your team should not dictate whether you win or lose between 2 equally skilled teams.

I played around 15 matches yesterday in PUGs. I tracked with tick marks how many times each team had ECM. Out of the 15 matches 6 matches had a side without ECM. Out of those 6, the side without ECM won 4. This is simply not true.

[Lyrik]

Tolkien, on 12 December 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

Now thanks to pain whatever, someone who made an account just to post 'it is fine please don't change it' which means they are very likely a troll or sock puppet account I have to change what I say next to: "Anyone who tells you that it 'just needs a tiny tweak' to be balanced is sadly probably unable to read, and anyone who says it is fine the way it is probably has not thought through what these kinds of imbalanced items will do to the game."

I'm no sockpuppet and I'm unable to read. ECM is a good addition to game. Sure it needs more balancing/counters. Like the PPC, AC etc. Thats why we are playing a beta. Or are you unable to read the BETA sign? Perhaps YOU are just playing the wrong game. Call of Stupid XYZ doesn't have ECM.

Sym, on 12 December 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

I hate ECM not because of what it does, but how if forces people to play a certain way and that it makes many Mechs in my Mech Lab mostly useless.


Besides, I get tired of running my 3L or DDC.

Learn to play. I'm not sorry that your SSRM and LRM boats are not so effective anymore. If you think that ECM Ravens and Atlas are the only options now then the problem is you playstyle and not ECM.

I have a lot of fun. So have my friends which are playing the game. Even got kills with a LRM/SSRM And my Hunch is just even more fun AFTER I learned to drive it. Shocking I know. That you have to adapt.

Learn from the borg. Even they adapted to transphasics :-P

[Ephrael]

Its good to see so many post about the ECM. and i guess its a great addition to team based play when your are in premades of 4 or 8 and can construct your lances yourself.. However as a pug'er its not so great its random at most. so i've done i've seen others do.. I've made a rule of minimum two ECM whenever i launch a game .. if there are any less of that i disconnect/overload or go out of bounds .. and you can cry whine of flame this approach all you want, I've just learned that playing a game with any less is a waste of time in most cases.


Regards Ephrael

[Tolkien]

Lyrik, on 12 December 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

I'm no sockpuppet and I'm unable to read.

I agree with you being unable to read, but I'm still not sure on the former.

Lyrik, on 12 December 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

Learn to play. I'm not sorry that your SSRM and LRM boats are not so effective anymore. If you think that ECM Ravens and Atlas are the only options now then the problem is you playstyle and not ECM.

I have to point blank disagree with you as you are saying there is nothing wrong with having a single 1.5 ton 2 slot piece of equipment counter

Artemis
BAP
Tag bonuses (and the whole system inside of 180m)
NARC - a system which takes more space, weighs more, requires real coordination and skill and has ammo.
other ECMs
LRM locks
SRM locks
general targeting info
relegate AMS to almost pointlessness
have no exploding ammo
generate no heat
cost less than a module by a factor of 15

If you are enjoying the game as it is becoming with ECM then I am glad you are having a good time, and there is no accounting for taste. Some people loved missile warrior online, others would love it if the only weapons were medium lasers.

If you are honestly saying that it is 'good' to have a single 1.5 ton, 2 slot piece of equipment do all of what it does then I have trouble taking your opinion seriously, as allowing this sort of over the top imbalanced equipment is doing much more damage than good.

[Tolkien]

Xenok, on 12 December 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

I played around 15 matches yesterday in PUGs. I tracked with tick marks how many times each team had ECM. Out of the 15 matches 6 matches had a side without ECM. Out of those 6, the side without ECM won 4. This is simply not true.

It's hard to draw a conclusion from a sample set like that - anecdotal situations happened to me too like losing 8 matches in a row. By your current reasoning this would indicate that I lose 100% of my games, which is also (thankfully) not true.

If you examine what's going on in premade 8 mans, it seems that ECM is very very common there. There are even some people posting in this thread (blackburn's raiders? I can't recall) that mentioned 6 ECM being common, so over there it's not a question of the team without ECM winning or losing more or less often, it is that no one dares to drop without ECM.

Remember, ECM didn't fix streak SRM, it just made it that the side with the most ECMs around their streak SRMs gets to still use them while denying the other side any use of them.