92 replies to this topic

[TigrisMorte]

chewie, on 04 December 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

...

Drop the LRM damage to be practically TT stats please. And the SRM stats too while your at it.
...

First, I thought Gauss was the only weapon they got correct. Now it has a 90% chance to explode. Joy.
But while your dropping things to TT stats, please include Armor, heat, heat dissipation, speed, and damage over time. That is all.

[Asmosis]

I think just the ability to explode would have been sufficient, didnt need the reduction to 3 HP so that *any* weapon hit will cause it to explode (sml really?). Even with default HP of 15(?) a single gauss,/ac20 round would destroy it and generally being the only thing in a location medium sized weapons can one shot it on a double crit, small/med weapons on a triple crit etc.

[Monky]

The Rifle should have 100% chance to explode once destroyed. It should also be inert and powered down once all ammo is depleted. Additionally, you should be able to power on/off in exchange for waiting for a firing cycle to pass, and venting 15 heat while powering it off as the heat has to go somewhere. This way if you had enough time you could save yourself the explosion, but you wouldn't be able to cheese it and would have to contend with the heat.

Remember - when someone crits a ton of AC20 ammo, they pretty much straight up die. 120 damage explosions are a lot worse than 20 point explosions, and Gauss Ammo is inert so there's no risk to using the gun if the explosion rule isn't in play, it's not like you run hot using it.

In addition, you should also be able to toggle an automatic dump ammo for any AC/MG if there are no functional weapons that can use them.

[Corison]

This Gauss "tweak" is meaningless. It’s still one of the top weapons along with the Ultra5's. PGI just failed utterly to design correctly for the higher refire rates.

Ok it takes damage now? So what. It always should have. Every other mech that uses ammo risks ammo explosions, it just happens that this one is 1/8th the damage done... in fact trivial damage.

ECM? Gauss Mechs have never needed lock on; in fact they are frequently used beyond or without a lock anyways.

This "nerf" is meaningless.

Edited by Corison, 04 December 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[CutterWolf]

Wow, I just love it when people come here a post about things that have no idea about. "This nerf meaningless" are you really this uninformed or are you activing trying?

The TT rules on the Gauss Rifle give it a "chance" to blow up, and this is what that chance is 25%. That's right a whole 25% not 90% it also has 10 HP not 3 HP so you tell me how is that balanced? Answer, its not in any way shape or form. What PGI should of did was "rase" its recycle rate. Currently it enjoys a 4 recycle rate this should be at 6 or 7 and all would be well again.

So the MWO version of the Gauss Rifle should look like this:

Tonnage: 15
Damage: 15
Ammo per ton: 10
Critical Slots: 7
HP: 10
Recycle: 6
Heat: 1
Critical hit: 25% causing 20 points of damage.

The weapon still has low hit points and it still can blow up as it should. But most importainly it has a slower rate of fire which forces it into the role its made for, "Long Range Sniping" not brawing.

[SouthernDad]

CutterWolf, on 04 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Wow, I just love it when people come here a post about things that have no idea about. "This nerf meaningless" are you really this uninformed or are you activing trying?

The TT rules on the Gauss Rifle give it a "chance" to blow up, and this is what that chance is 25%. That's right a whole 25% not 90% it also has 10 HP not 3 HP so you tell me how is that balanced? Answer, its not in any way shape or form. What PGI should of did was "rase" its recycle rate. Currently it enjoys a 4 recycle rate this should be at 6 or 7 and all would be well again.

So the MWO version of the Gauss Rifle should look like this:

Tonnage: 15
Damage: 15
Ammo per ton: 10
Critical Slots: 7
HP: 10
Recycle: 6
Heat: 1
Critical hit: 25% causing 20 points of damage.

The weapon still has low hit points and it still can blow up as it should. But most importainly it has a slower rate of fire which forces it into the role its made for, "Long Range Sniping" not brawing.

^^^^^^^^^^There's the answer right there.

I still fail to understand how a Rifle that uses magnetic fields to propel a projectile "Explodes". I guess there's a round in the chamber and the rounds explode?

[Scarlett Avignon]

Shammah, on 04 December 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

I still fail to understand how a Rifle that uses magnetic fields to propel a projectile "Explodes". I guess there's a round in the chamber and the rounds explode?

The GR uses massive capacitors to build up the energy to fire it's projectiles.

Imagine breaching a 5 ton bank of capacitors at full charge...

As a matter of fact, don't imagine. This times about 500,000 or so:

[CutterWolf]

Shammah, on 04 December 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

^^^^^^^^^^There's the answer right there.

I still fail to understand how a Rifle that uses magnetic fields to propel a projectile "Explodes". I guess there's a round in the chamber and the rounds explode?

This is a good question. I will explain why it explodes for you and those who don't know. The Gauss Rifle utilizes a series of electromagnets to propel slugs of ferrous nickel-iron alloy at extremely high velocities, making it a devastating and lethal long-range weapon. Unlike most traditional ballistic weapons, the Gauss Rifle does not use combustible propellant, so its firing generates very little heat. However, the sheer mass and bulk of the weapon limits its applications.
Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.) Some 'Mechs employ CASE in the section containing the Gauss Rifle to protect internal components in the event the weapon explodes.

That is why the weapon its self can cause an explosion but the ammo can not.

[PL Harpoon]

Monky, on 04 December 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

The Rifle should have 100% chance to explode once destroyed. It should also be inert and powered down once all ammo is depleted. Additionally, you should be able to power on/off in exchange for waiting for a firing cycle to pass, and venting 15 heat while powering it off as the heat has to go somewhere. This way if you had enough time you could save yourself the explosion, but you wouldn't be able to cheese it and would have to contend with the heat.

Remember - when someone crits a ton of AC20 ammo, they pretty much straight up die. 120 damage explosions are a lot worse than 20 point explosions, and Gauss Ammo is inert so there's no risk to using the gun if the explosion rule isn't in play, it's not like you run hot using it.

In addition, you should also be able to toggle an automatic dump ammo for any AC/MG if there are no functional weapons that can use them.

Actually this is a very good idea. Ammo dump was available in previous MW games and it was a life saver sometimes. Also being able to power down a gauss rifle add a bit of tactics to it. But only if it needs like 60 sec to power down.

[Weeble]

I had a Gausspult when getting elite on my Cats. I wanted to level as fast as possible so I went to the "easy mode" Gauss build. I could snipe or get close and blast weak spots for 30 dmg. My K/D shot up. I felt OP.

Point is, it wasn't right, there was no down side. Gauss needed balance- more heat, more weight, more crits, more expensive, something. I don't know it this is the right way to balance it but it's a good place to start since they are only fixing a bug. Then they can tweak the % probability to explode until it's right.

I've kept fighting after losing one Gauss. I was running an XL engine so there was a 90% chance I would have lost my engine when the Gauss was destroyed, right? Maybe this change hurts fast Gausspults and the snipers (guys not running around at 66 kph) aren't affected as much. The XL engine Gausspult will be dangerous to your enemies and to your wallet. Seems fair to me.

Non-K2 drivers complaining about people targeting their Gauss? Really? Knowledgeable pilots always target ballistics in a brawl. People just need to deal with it. Ask any Hunchie driver about his AC20...

[Mota Prefect]

CutterWolf, on 04 December 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Wow, I just love it when people come here a post about things that have no idea about. "This nerf meaningless" are you really this uninformed or are you activing trying?

The TT rules on the Gauss Rifle give it a "chance" to blow up, and this is what that chance is 25%. That's right a whole 25% not 90% it also has 10 HP not 3 HP so you tell me how is that balanced? Answer, its not in any way shape or form. What PGI should of did was "rase" its recycle rate. Currently it enjoys a 4 recycle rate this should be at 6 or 7 and all would be well again.

So the MWO version of the Gauss Rifle should look like this:

Tonnage: 15
Damage: 15
Ammo per ton: 10
Critical Slots: 7
HP: 10
Recycle: 6
Heat: 1
Critical hit: 25% causing 20 points of damage.

The weapon still has low hit points and it still can blow up as it should. But most importainly it has a slower rate of fire which forces it into the role its made for, "Long Range Sniping" not brawing.

Wow, I think you're the one that's uninformed here my friend this is MWO, not TT.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Chance for the Gauss rifle to explode? YES, that was a great idea, but does not affect me in the least, as I assumed gauss rifles exploded anyway, and all my builds run with CASE on gauss rifle sections...reduced health however was too much....

[Rixsaw]

The Double Guass K2 is why I fell in love with this game.

Now I'm forced to pilot a DDC Atlas due to the fact that half the guys in our unit have sold theirs in the past and are saving up to buy one again, so we can rotate.

I only got to run my K2 once tonight and I exploded after the first shot. I have a 2nd K2 in the garage which is double AC20, its slow and has to manage the fight a little more, but yes I can nail that 140 KPH jenner at 300 yards as it flies across the map, so I guess you old timers out there will think that should be nerfed next.

If they fixed the arm mounted balistics issues and the net code, or gave us some feedback on how much dmg we are doing with each weapon we fired durring a round, then we might be able to understand this mixed bag of input they send towards our screen each match.

As is it is right now, I can't hit a jenner with arm balistics, streaks don't work anymore, SRM6's are a 1 in 3 shot based on firing delay.

I'm a pretty good player, I have high KDR, and high W/L ratio. I have about 15 different mechs at master proficiency, and didn't really run my K2 but once or twice a day just for fun.

My opinion on all the gloating by these players that the Guass rifle was ruined is that they really aren't very good players.

It seems to me that as a good player I never had an issue with a Guass K2, neverfelt at a dissadvantage, never felt they were OP or anything like that. I do know that certain players with lower skill felt it was OP, but those players will find other things to complain about once the Guass Players switch to the next weapon of choice.

Be prepared for the elite players to switch to another weapon and own you with it, the Guass rifle was fun, but other fun will be had, and we will miss our Guass K2, and remember that its PGI that folded to whiney newbs with no skill, instead of manning up and allowing the boys to play.

[Mechsniper]

Guass in now a useless glass gun. Ran one in an Atlas plenty up till now, and it is gone instantly in any fight now. Before now, it did already get destroyed frequently. The problem is still the gauss cat NOT the gauss rifle, never was. OK if it explodes when destroyed some, but 9/10 times... right. If not rebuffed it will be done. Already using the AC/20 instead for that mech. Worst thing, the way the side torsos are armored on the K2 the guass cat really didn't lose as much as other mechs for it. Lower explosion odds as the only thing to blow would be the electrical capacitors. Ammo is innert. Please return it to a useful item. If not, it will no longer be on my mechs. The game is NOT as fun without it, and with netcode as bad as it is, it takes a little luck to hit anything moving at range with any other ballistic.

Edited by Mechsniper, 04 December 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Rixsaw, on 04 December 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

The Double Guass K2 is why I fell in love with this game.

Now I'm forced to pilot a DDC Atlas due to the fact that half the guys in our unit have sold theirs in the past and are saving up to buy one again, so we can rotate.

I only got to run my K2 once tonight and I exploded after the first shot. I have a 2nd K2 in the garage which is double AC20, its slow and has to manage the fight a little more, but yes I can nail that 140 KPH jenner at 300 yards as it flies across the map, so I guess you old timers out there will think that should be nerfed next.

If they fixed the arm mounted balistics issues and the net code, or gave us some feedback on how much dmg we are doing with each weapon we fired durring a round, then we might be able to understand this mixed bag of input they send towards our screen each match.

As is it is right now, I can't hit a jenner with arm balistics, streaks don't work anymore, SRM6's are a 1 in 3 shot based on firing delay.

I'm a pretty good player, I have high KDR, and high W/L ratio. I have about 15 different mechs at master proficiency, and didn't really run my K2 but once or twice a day just for fun.

My opinion on all the gloating by these players that the Guass rifle was ruined is that they really aren't very good players.

It seems to me that as a good player I never had an issue with a Guass K2, neverfelt at a dissadvantage, never felt they were OP or anything like that. I do know that certain players with lower skill felt it was OP, but those players will find other things to complain about once the Guass Players switch to the next weapon of choice.

Be prepared for the elite players to switch to another weapon and own you with it, the Guass rifle was fun, but other fun will be had, and we will miss our Guass K2, and remember that its PGI that folded to whiney newbs with no skill, instead of manning up and allowing the boys to play.

Pretty much my sentiments. Honestly my aim with the gauss K2 went south recently...I can hit much better with my erppc K2, and it has a much longer effective range....now if ppc's just didnt suck so hard i would be a dangerous *******.....

[Thrak]

This nerf is a little too much in the wrong direction. The two extremes are the atlas and the k2, on the whole atlases with guass has never been an issue ( note lack of gauss atlas whining threads) because of obvious big gun hit box. Whereas the main issue with the k2 is the tiny side torso hit boxes. This patch absolutely destroys the first build and has only a minor impact on the latter.

Even odder is how useless a dual/triple ilya build will be now. Gauss in the arms? Lol. Can't even fit case there.

In my opinion the health needs a boost back up, and lower the % to explode (such a horrible nerf to cataphracts and hunchys).
The tweak if needed? Minimum range and possibly a 20% increase in recycle time. And expand the k2 rt lt hit boxes.

What boggles my mind is that pgi never tried the gauss with the explode actually working as intended they just got out the massive nerf bat. Has anyone actually moaned about gausscats for a while?

Edited by Thrak, 04 December 2012 - 11:49 PM.

[RainbowToh]

Reducing HP from 10 to 3?? Insane. 60% to 90% chance to explode? Insane.

And about TT the Gauss rifle having 1 health and 100% to explode, that works only you throw dice for the shots. In a realtime game, ppl can keep their aim on a specific component fairly easily.

Increasing recycle time? Gee PGI has prob never thought of that. (DESPITE PPL SCREAMING ABOUT IT IN FORUMS FOR SO LONG)

Cheers.

[LHR Dovah]

Snib, on 04 December 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

long range sniper weapons don't exist in a game with firing delay, with massive latency and terrible motion prediction.

Long range sniper weapons dont exist in battletech. period. 3000m for an artillery piece is nothing compared to the M109 Howitzer's 18km (18,000m), with Rocket assisted projectiles that nearly doubles to 30km!

Don't argue long range. Also, Large lasers weigh 1/3 the weight of a gauss rifle yet deliver 2/3 damage, and can reach up to 1000m. LRMs Weigh much less than a gauss rifle and can reach out to 1000m (ECM can be jammed. deal). AC 2's have the longest effective range, AC 5's, and AC 10's (excluding the LB 10-X) can reach out too.

If anything, the gauss rifle should reach farther, and the projectile should travel MUCH faster imo. Having reduced durability would make sense considering a gauss rifle is an arrangement of magnets that have enormous amounts of power pushed through them to propel a slug up to "Mach 6" 3600-4200mph depending on alt. or about 6000kph. with things like that, precise measurements mean all the difference, thus a damaged gauss rifle firing would be catastrophic. Same for an exploding gauss rifle. Thats a lot of power to spontaneously discharge...

[John MatriX82]

I don't think making the gun blow is bad.. it's the 3 internal HPs that are a plain joke! Restore them back to 10..

[Lyrik]

Schlaung, on 04 December 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Long range sniper weapons are bad in a brawl? RABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLERABBLE

Yep :-)
PGI will probably up the hp in one of the next patches. New changes means new data which they have to analyze.