92 replies to this topic

[AlexWildeagle]

Sen, on 04 December 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

The change makes perfect sense. Before, if you could throw it on a mech, you did. This morning I saw a HUNCH brawler build with. . you guessed it. . gauss.

If this change helps to keep gauss out at range where it was more or less intended, without nerfing damage or targeting, I'm all for it.

I just wish the maps were bigger so one could take better advantage of sniper builds.
[I said BETTER advantage. Hush]

When your wrong you're really wrong. For your point to be valid gauss would be meant for commandos or jenners and ravens. Gauss is not just a snipers weapon, it was for brawlers as well. Now it is next to useless except for the K2 builds as their torso is tough to hit.

Devs really don't think about changes, cause they screwed most of us but did not even come close to solving the original issue.

[FallenFactol]

I thought the debuff was a bit much. Most gauss cat's are one trick ponies that tend to get ripped up once the fighting gets close. I admit to using one from time to time and it's great if your far back, but you could get AC'd or LRM'd and in a brawling situation only a bunch of lucky shots will help you out. I would figure half of the HP the gun would take before the debuff would be a better number.

[Dormax]

Personally, I see this as a better balance.

• AC20 weighs a lot, so does the ammo, takes up more slots, and produces more heat
  
• Large pulse lasers don't hit as hard and produce a crap load of heat
  
• UAC5 packs a wholop but locks up 25% of the time and becomes useless for the time it takes to clear he jam
  
• Gauss rifle explodes (as per the original TT balance rules) as an offset to having a super low heat profile and doing heavy damage.

If you want reliable, go with an AC10 or AC5. If you want to run with a super alpha, you need to be willing to take the risk. Give and take.

[ManDaisy]

I think the devs went the wrong way in balacing the gauss much like the went the wrong way with the lbx cannon. I do agree with the high explosion chance but the hit points should be 10 like any other weapon. What they SHOULD do instead is make ppc hits jam them as they would have to reset their capicitors due to the emp effect.

True you might be perma jammed under heavy ppc fire, but I would rather it be that way then how it is now as it would still negate all gauss builds like the ecm did to the streak cat without hurting those who use it as a secondary.

Edited by ManDaisy, 05 December 2012 - 06:33 PM.

[AlexWildeagle]

GrimlockONE, on 05 December 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

Did you not read or understand what I posted. You sir are a [Redacted].

Taken from SARNA:

"Unlike most traditional ballistic weapons, the Gauss Rifle does not use combustible propellant, so its firing generates very little heat. However, the sheer mass and bulk of the weapon limits its applications.Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion."

Gauss Rifles can be stripped off a mech now! Gasp! Even at long range you can still take enough damage, lose enough armor, that when you are hit again where the Rifle is housed that it will be destroyed. Sorry, that **** happens. Fortunately, only a few weapons can reach the same distance that the Gauss Rifle can.
I am not in denial, I actually am embracing the changes and am happy for them.

But canon doesn't say it has a third the hit points then other weapons. It should still have a health of 10.

Also it doesn't address the issue they intended, which was the gausscat. It carries the gauss in a very slim torso location which is a difficult shot. So the devs failed miserably, weapon health is too low and it really has no effect on the K2

[Illydth]

Franklen Avignon, on 05 December 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

Good point. While making a game based completely off of a tabletop miniature game, PGI should completely ignore the tabletop miniature game.

Logic level: Professional

His argument is idiotic, his logic may not be 100% correct, but there are points there you should not rule out.

The fact is, as much as we'd LIKE this to be TT played out on a computer, it's not. EVERYTHING about this game is different from Table Top. In TT you have a field of battle that you, the player, can see all of. YOu can't here. In TT you have movement rules and damage rules that don't apply here. In MWO you have lock on times that you don't here. In TT you don't have NetCode lag or ping problems, you do here. TT is a more strategic game, MWO is twitch gaming like all FPSs. TT is a turn based strategic combat akin to games like chess. MWO is a FPS live action real time game played over a network.

Yes, this game bases it's rules on Table Top. That's the END. The EXPERIENCE of playing an FPS game has nothing at all to do with the EXPERIENCE of playing a TT game. Some of the rules translate excellently. Some of the rules translate partially, some of the rules just make no fracking sense when ported to a real time game.

On behalf of all of us who'd like to see a balanced MechWarrior Online combat game and not a prescious return to table top play, I'd like to ask the MWO community to quit seeing the Table Top game as the holy grail of all that could ever be for this game. It's not. And when you start trying to argue table top rules (read the ECM thread) for a real time FPS you start getting into some serious logical and logistical problems. There are simply pieces of the game mechanics in this game that DO NOT appear in TT, and some of those VERY SMALL pieces of the overall mechanics create HUGE rabbit holes to go down when trying to translate Table Top rules into MWO game play.

The simple fact that LRMS and SSRMs take time to lock onto target and you have to physically hold a targeting cursor over the mech while missile locking creates HUGE GAPING HOLES in the translation of a plethora of table top rules into MWO...for no better reason that that SINGLE INTRICACY doesn't exist in TT meaning NONE of the weapons, armor equipment or rules surrounding TT take into account (and thus are not balanced for) that delay...meaning that none of the balance surrounding Weapons, armor, equipment or rules are balanced for that delay, meaning nothing dealing with weapons, armor, equipment or rules are balanced for that delay...

Take any minor change like this and follow it down the rabbit hole and you realize very quickly that you cannot simply cry "TT" to every argument and be right. There HAVE TO BE CHANGES to the TT rules to make this game run properly.

TT is a great place to START to determine HOW to implement something. It's a good basis for entry into the game...but that's it...that's the beginning and end. Once it's in the game the TT rules need to be thrown OUT the window and changes need to be made to balance the FPS game NOT to try to implement and hold to the TT rules as the holy grail of all. Just because the rule was in TT does not make it apply properly in MWO.

Regarding Gauss, it's too fragile. The only reason people had a problem with Gauss was Gauss Cats. Gauss Cats have not been complained about in ages in favor of Streak Cats which have become the cheese build of the century right now.

Are we not getting the picture that perhaps it's the CATAPULT that's the problem, not the Gauss Rifle or Streak SRM's? Gauss is not useable outside of 5 - 600M out. Anyone 5 - 600m out is not being protected by ECM and is a sitting duck in this game. Brawling is all there is anymore.

Fix Gauss or remove it from the game...it's a useless weapon as it stands...despite all the pencil pushers screaming that since the table top rules state in TT Gauss is fine, it must be great for this game!

--Illydth

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Thontor, on 05 December 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

True, but its a lot harder for enemies to focus fire on the part of your mech that contains the gauss rifle, simply because its a smaller target at range.

Try telling that to LRMs. Goodbye GR. Nice knowing you, but I think my double AC2s are a safer bet for now.

[AC]

The OP is right on one point. The root of the complaints was not the gauss rifle, but the Gauss Cat. PGI didn't do anything to address the root cause of the complaints. If they utilized a better slot system I don't think we would be having any of these discussions.

Edited by AC, 05 December 2012 - 10:34 PM.

[Kotrin]

Nerfing Gauss was a bad move. Gauss was a fine weapon as it stood (and I died because of it more often than not). Even Gausscat were not that impressive: a dual Gauss hit was certainly not good but Gausscat had to sacrifice almost everything to field two, including mobility.

There has never been any complaint of Atlas Gauss, Dragon Gauss or whatever build fielding one. Even Cataphract Gauss ("Gaussaphracts") are not really an issue now, considering their slowness and large hit box.

Gauss weapon being ballistic, it already has plenty going against it. Bring a Jenner to a fight against any ballistic-fielding 'Mach and target is usually toast.

Unfortunately, for many builds you can't replace a Gauss with an AC/20, simply because the latter doesn't fill in a standard arm (because of various actuators). So Gauss users are left in the rain.

Guess I should play an ECM light 'Mech like everyone else these days.

[Zwietracht]

chewie, on 04 December 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

They didn't just nerf it, they destroyed it.

In my Atlas's, the 3 variants that I have, 2 of which still run the big G.
EVERY TIME, I got in a (sub 300 mtr) brawl, that's the first thing people will go for. Not bothered by my mediums or SRM's. No, go for the Big Gun.

no still have so much fun with my gausscat and the gauss is not a weapon for brawling... seriously do not blame pgi for your crap mech build^^

[No7]

While I can see PGI's reasoning behind nerfing gauss I think it is both sad and a bad move.

The gauss was fine, but even the patch before the last patch made it so weak and vulnerable that everyone stopped using them. But maybe the point is to have weapons that are fine for a tiny niche which means they will never be used.

I was playing a lot with a friend that used an Atlas with 1 gauss and even though he was not a brawler per se, his gauss rifle was destroyed as soon as he started to receive any fire. Every time. Every drop. His gauss was rendered useless. That is a big loss considering the weight of the gauss and the ammo. Even then, the gauss was nerfed beyond usefulness.

And now it is much worse.

So I think it is sad that the dynamics of the game is reduced. All weapons should have their value and the gauss was fine just as it was considering its requirements.

7

[MustrumRidcully]

I have no problem with the exploding Gauss Rifle. Other ballistics suffer from exploding ammo.

I have, however, a problem with reducing its hit points. They should have waited to see if the bugfix alone would make the Gauss Rifle balanced. Instead they are effectively applying a double nerf.

And I also maintain the Gauss Rifle is fine. In fact, with Double Heat sinks, it's almost underpowered compared to most other ballistics, the only reason it was so popular on the Catapult is because the Catapult only had 2 ballistic slots, and this and the AC/20 where the ones with the highest damage potential then. But once you have 3 or 4 ballistic hard points, the Gauss Rifle is actually less interesting.

The problem is that ER Large Laser, PPC and ER PPC are too hot. Lower their heat by 1, 2 or 4 points, and you'll have them competitive (with Double Heat Sinks only, for SHS, they are still too hot):

[chewie]

Zwietracht, on 06 December 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

no still have so much fun with my gausscat and the gauss is not a weapon for brawling... seriously do not blame pgi for your crap mech build^^

And you sir, are an *****.


See, I can be insulting too.

Not once am I complaining about my *crap build* as you put it. And that would be a crap build that has ripped up enough people over the months. So please, kindly bog off with your assumptions.

Because unlike the word assume, its only making an *** outta you and not me.

Don't come in here to be insulting ok. To anyone regardless. Cheers


Again, this is not a QQ thread, but a POV. Because the Gauss stats were not the issue, but how it was used, eg, the Gauss Cat and its superiority on the field for a long while.

NERFing the Gauss makes it a less desirable weapon and wasn't really needed. Not in the way it has been done.

It IS a brawling weapon, because it works at all Ranges. Just like you could say the ERPPC can be, because it too has no minimum range and no disadvantages when targeting. Of course the ERPPC has a high heat per shot, but that's what's meant to happen.

The Gauss is meant to be the premier weapon. Its meant to hit hard, for low heat. That's what makes it such a good weapon to have. be it 1 or 2 on your mech.

If they wanted to implement the possibility of it exploding when hit, perhaps instead of making it 90%, how about making it 50%, but with an added provision of :
1) if ammo present, risk of explosion when hit =50%
2) if no ammo present, risk of explosion when hit =10%

The majority of the time, by the time you get the armour off, the next big hit to that location is gonna destroy it regardless. Making it go boom and have it do added damage to other parts is just an added bonus.

If the weapon is empty, why would you have it actively recharging. It gets redded out so you know its useless. Therefore the *capacitor banks* that are powering the magnets/rails (you pick your fav word for it, because the Gauss/Rail thing is a whole other thread) would be discharged and not drawing power from your reactor ready for your next shot.
If they were charged, then you stand a chance of it going boom.

Lets look at the history of the beta crying so far as far as weapons are concerned. Which weapons have been cried about the hardest

Flamers. It was bugged. Badly. People took advantage of it, and cried about it, so PGI had to change it.
LRMs, weren't quite right, and were too strong, so PGI changed it.
Then the K2 was produced. People figured they could get 2 Big G's in with a little work, and it was super effective. So people cried because they were being sniped.

But the Problem was never the weapon. It was the mech and the people that either ran one, or encountered one.

So now legitimate builds that carry a Gauss as standard, like the 7K, are now at a disadvantage in that a tweak has been made to its damage dealing primary weapon.

I'd rather have a Gauss instead of an AC20, because its such a good weapon, has more ammo per ton, has a minimal heat output and has no restrictions at any range.

I've seen folks mention about increasing its heat. Heck, lets just call it an AC15 and be done with it in that case.
Its not like no-one has invented a weapon for these games before out of thin air (pointless Bombast laser.....)

With luck, PGI will be monitoring the data on the Gauss and hopefully reverse the nerf, even if only to make it a bit less susceptible to exploding.

Edited by chewie, 06 December 2012 - 05:48 AM.