17 replies to this topic

[DashFire61]

ECM has become a nessecity when it should be a commodity, having almost half of the mechs be able to use ECM makes the game a strictly hide behind hills and wait it out. EMC needs to be made more exclusive, hopefully down to the Raven and the Atlas. With ECM most 8 man teams are composed of 6-7 Atlas and 1-2 Raven. This is not balanced and ruins the gameplay intended for the game.

[Quantum Prime]

I agree - it took the game from one extreme to the other. LRMs with Artemis were a little overpowered before ECM. But now ECM is way overpowered by essentially nullifying LRMS. In reality ECM was meant to counter the Artemis hit - MAYBE delay targeting a little. Now it has become a game of who has more ECMs on their team pretty much wins.

Countless games where an ECM group just sneaks into the base and wins it. So what do you do? just stay in your base? Oh that's really fun. "everybody huddle up in a line at base" "Don't worry, they can't get us with LRMs"

LRMs are an important part of this game - it prevents people from staying in their base ECMed and hunkering down. It also prevents you from going in the open (unless you want to die)

I'm cool with deviating from TT - SOMEWHAT> I think it should not matter how many ECMs there are - one is as good as 8 - meaning no more ECM battles - AND it should only slow down the time it takes to target them - that would take the edge of LRMS but also take the edge of ECMS. It used to be who has the most LRMs with Artemis, now it's who has the most ECMs...

At this point we'll simply end up with a bunch of ECM atlases with Gauss rifles. Lame.

[Skyfaller]

Lt James Steiner, on 04 December 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

ECM has become a nessecity when it should be a commodity, having almost half of the mechs be able to use ECM makes the game a strictly hide behind hills and wait it out. EMC needs to be made more exclusive, hopefully down to the Raven and the Atlas. With ECM most 8 man teams are composed of 6-7 Atlas and 1-2 Raven. This is not balanced and ruins the gameplay intended for the game.

Only the Raven3L and perhaps the upcoming Spider should have it. Light mechs only. Its absolutely stupid to have the heaviest armor mech carry an ECM.

[RainbowToh]

Ya having an Atlas carry ECM is really overkill. Driving a specific mechs to have ECM is a compromise of sorts and will make that mech unique. I know in lore Raven is a dedicated ECM/ECCM mech. I heard a few others are like that too. Even in reallife, only specific warplanes can carry dedicated ECM, for example the EA-6 Prowler, that can provide ECM protection for planes around. Most warplanes carry passive ECM equipment that protect themselves only, unlike the ECM we have in MWO where essentially you can provide the same coverage for everyone around you which makes ECM overkill since everyone can carry one.

[focuspark]

I run a ECM BAP TAG Cicada. It's a hoot to light up a target with TAG now because all the LRM boats start spamming it because it's the only thing they can see. :-)

[Pr0of]

I agree with this post; I think ecm was overdone. I was a 3L pilot prior to this ECM patch, and that was just because it has always been my favorite mech...that aside as a Raven pilot now, I just feel like I went from exclusive to fotm.

I think how the only counter to ecm is having more ecm is silly. Narc and Tag should work within the ECM "bubble"; Mechs that have BAP should be able to target mechs within a certain range unhindered...perhaps have a longer lock time or achieve no missile lock at all, but target information should not be hindered with BAP.(again within a certain range). As it stands the "window" for tag while it does exist is much too small...and NARC is just wasted tonnage.

The fact there is nothing stopping a team from having 8 ECM equiped Atlas' is INSANE...If they are going to introduce something so ground breaking and paradigm shifting; it needs to have it's checks and balances just like anything else.

Edited by Pr0of, 05 December 2012 - 12:55 AM.

[Critical Fumble]

Last week I made a thread about ECM and some ideas about things to add to keep the game fair. One of those was having ECM as a MM factor, which is probably in the works, but in the SOON^TM bin.

The other things were:

• Restrict ECMs to mechs that are vulnerable to most weapons.
  
• Make the counter mode/ECCM belong to another piece of equipment.
  
• Change the "winner takes all" EW mechanic to one where having a piece of EW gear is still useful even if you are outnumbered.
  
• Allow limited target sharing from and to jammed mechs, or at least an indication of targeted enemies with close allies.
  
• To keep LRMs relevant with EW in the game, add the ability to manually guide LRMs to direct fire targets. This may require extra equipment like Artemis or TAG.

After seeing them in game I'd also like to add that given their power, there should be some kind of disadvantage to having ECM, other than space and weight. Giving a somewhat nebulous indication of where an ECM mech is could help.

Personally, I feel that they rushed implementing this. TAG is only a counter if you can maintain direct LOS and track them; really fast light mechs make both of those difficult. Debuff elements are really hard to balance in multiplayer games.

[Orkimedes]

Critical Fumble, on 05 December 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

• To keep LRMs relevant with EW in the game, add the ability to manually guide LRMs to direct fire targets.

This may require extra equipment like Artemis or TAG.

you can already 'direct fire' ECM targets using TAG. the range of Tag will probably soon be upped to 750metres (up from 450metres) as stated in the command chair section of the forum. Devs have stated multiple times that TAG is supposed to be a counter to ECM. Not entirely sure how NARC is supposed to fit in.

Edited by Orkimedes, 05 December 2012 - 05:52 AM.

[Critical Fumble]

That could do the trick so long as people pick up on it. I actually said "maybe with TAG" in the part you cut off, although that's worth pointing out. I was thinking more along the lines of "I point at the ground and my missiles fly there" like the laser guided rockets in Half-Life, ect., rather than a workaround; but again, whatever works.

Edited by Critical Fumble, 05 December 2012 - 05:57 AM.

[Ceribus]

I personally don't get what all the fuss is about, not finding much harder to shoot my enemies because of ECM, sure it's alot harder to hit with LRMs but still possible, I've never really rellied on targetting my opponents for any of my other weapons so I still find it easy enough to hit people at long range without the big red box

[Syllogy]

Lt James Steiner, on 04 December 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

With ECM most 8 man teams are composed of 6-7 Atlas and 1-2 Raven.

Proof?

[Name77543]

I was happily using the Commando 2D before ECM and will continue to do so because it's fun. Some of the ECM features are nice but I have to admit it's a bit much. It's nice to be able to move out into an open area or stumble into a Streak Cat without it being an instant death sentence but being able to cover the entire squad is over kill. In addition being able to switch back and forth between the two modes makes the Guardian too powerful. I'd say:

• cut the bubble down significantly
  
• either make the user select one mode for the battle and stick with it or have two different peices of equipment....and no you can't have both on one mech.....although that would be nice

[Pocket Psycho]

Syllogy, on 05 December 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Proof?

I can't really offer proof but I did have one match last night where my team had 5 Atlas DC's, 2 Raven 3L's (one was me) and a Yen Lo Wang, that was a pure PuG match.

bookkeeper, on 05 December 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

I was happily using the Commando 2D before ECM and will continue to do so because it's fun. Some of the ECM features are nice but I have to admit it's a bit much. It's nice to be able to move out into an open area or stumble into a Streak Cat without it being an instant death sentence but being able to cover the entire squad is over kill. In addition being able to switch back and forth between the two modes makes the Guardian too powerful. I'd say:

• cut the bubble down significantly
  
• either make the user select one mode for the battle and stick with it or have two different peices of equipment....and no you can't have both on one mech.....although that would be nice

I'd like to see ECM having 2 modes for disruption, one is for you alone that works pretty much the way it does now, and the other is an area effect to grant ECM protection to friendlies and yourself but not to the same degree, like the radar targetting range isn't decreased as much, they can still be targeted by LRMs but it takes longer for the lock to engage, and damage information can't be detected so you don't know where their armor is weak. That way you can either shield yourself really well so you can scout/harass, or can shield your team a bit when you're near them.

[Asmudius Heng]

ECM just needs to cause lock ons some hassle, not nullify them completely - such extreme shut down effects cause extreme reactions such as the overuse of ECM.

Organised groups just take as many ECM as they can, nullify all enemy ECM if they have less, then they are free to Streak and LRM anyway.

So its a numbers game that gets pretty dull.

[Voidsinger]

RainbowToh, on 04 December 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Ya having an Atlas carry ECM is really overkill. Driving a specific mechs to have ECM is a compromise of sorts and will make that mech unique. I know in lore Raven is a dedicated ECM/ECCM mech. I heard a few others are like that too. Even in reallife, only specific warplanes can carry dedicated ECM, for example the EA-6 Prowler, that can provide ECM protection for planes around. Most warplanes carry passive ECM equipment that protect themselves only, unlike the ECM we have in MWO where essentially you can provide the same coverage for everyone around you which makes ECM overkill since everyone can carry one.

While I admit you are completely right about the Atlas being overkill, your example was very wrong. The replacement for the Prowler, the EF18G Growler is just a rewired F18F. Australia had half its F18Fs wired for Growler tech, but does not usually carry it.

Personally, I do think some skill/experience should be required, but my suggestion on the matter hasn't gone down well.

[M4sterFl4sh]

Syllogy, on 05 December 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Proof?

I concur. Played some 8 man games tonight. There's no weight limit on the teams so teams are mostly assault mechs with 1 or 2 scouts, the atlas D-DC and raven 3-L due to both having ECM capacity. There's little reason to run much other than those mechs right now while ECM is so broken.

[general wolf 85]

Quantum Prime, on 04 December 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

I agree - it took the game from one extreme to the other. LRMs with Artemis were a little overpowered before ECM. But now ECM is way overpowered by essentially nullifying LRMS. In reality ECM was meant to counter the Artemis hit - MAYBE delay targeting a little. Now it has become a game of who has more ECMs on their team pretty much wins.

Countless games where an ECM group just sneaks into the base and wins it. So what do you do? just stay in your base? Oh that's really fun. "everybody huddle up in a line at base" "Don't worry, they can't get us with LRMs"

LRMs are an important part of this game - it prevents people from staying in their base ECMed and hunkering down. It also prevents you from going in the open (unless you want to die)

I'm cool with deviating from TT - SOMEWHAT> I think it should not matter how many ECMs there are - one is as good as 8 - meaning no more ECM battles - AND it should only slow down the time it takes to target them - that would take the edge of LRMS but also take the edge of ECMS. It used to be who has the most LRMs with Artemis, now it's who has the most ECMs...

At this point we'll simply end up with a bunch of ECM atlases with Gauss rifles. Lame.

it not the only weapon effected . the strek 2 missle are effected bye the ecm . if your running them the attles just push on you and there is nothing you can do but fire lassers . your dead . they should limmit how many ecm are in a match . mabey 1 each side . not 6 on one side and none on the other . or mabey the attles should not have the ecm at all .

[Corvus Antaka]

Well the past few days ECM has been fine. a few here and there.

Last game - us - 0 ECM. Enemy - 6 ECM.

Guess who won?

1-2 ECM is fine. heavy ECM stacking is a problem.

I wonder if having 1 ECM on counter counter ALL ECM wouldnt still be the easiest solution to prevent this ridiculous ECM stacking that happens and just ruins games and turns the whole thing into ECM warrior online.

But even then, if no one brings and ECM for your team,...boned.

Matchmaker forcing ECM balance on each side?

rdiculous imho.

tough problem. Have to see what PGI gives us to address this. Even if more is added to dsirupt ECM, what happens if your team happens to not have any ECM counters?

imho the "outside the 180m bubble" stealth effect needs to go so LRMS can return to their intended role effectively, and brawlers can still get in close to the enemy and cause havoc.