235 replies to this topic

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Felix, on 04 December 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

I am fairly sure their outlook now is 'we got their money, screw em if they dont like it!'

I am genuinely surprised that they didnt charge their MC points for ECM, or make it unlock at elite level to force people to buy more mechs



having ECM block arcing missiles but allowing them to be used just fine within their personal LOS would make far too much sense and be far too fair

The problem is that direct fire LRMs would still be pretty close to useless... they just take too long to get there and if you take a longer time to get a lock or its harder to maintain, you'd probably get very few hits.

I don't care for the way they have made LRMs more of an indirect fire system only. Its too bad they don't have a direct fire mode with a minimal arc but significantly improved speed to target

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

HighlandCoo, on 04 December 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

I thought the TAG was unaffected by ECM?

If you're being jammed by an ECM, your Tag will cease to work. Thus this as a counter is thrown right out the window. It does have a longer range than the ECM jamming... but that won't help much. People with an ECM are going to deliberately get within jamming range just to do it... especially if they see you with a Tag Laser. HF trying to be at the perfect distances an entire fight for using that Tag. They said this is a "counter", when in reality, it's like a bandaid for a gunshot wound.

Edited by Bluten, 04 December 2012 - 11:27 PM.

[Fooooo]

No idea if it is really needed, but its just an idea I had....


What about a timer on using the ECM in normal mode or whatever. (counter mode can be no timer)

First ECM starts in counter mode every match.

Once you turn your ECM to active a timer starts counting down. Say 30 secs or 1 min. After the timer runs out it switches to counter mode and you have a cooldown to stop you going back to active right away.

Switching to counter mode right after starting this timer (stopping active mode before the 30sec or 1min timer finishes) forces a cooldown on switching back to active. (30 secs ? The left over time from the timer??.......Whatever is reasonable)

Basically forcing ECM mechs to pick and choose when is the best time to use the active mode etc. Meaning you can't leave it on 100% of the time.......

Other then that, NARC and TAG could be made more useful against ECM, or mechs inside an ecm bubble I guess.

Edited by Fooooo, 04 December 2012 - 11:28 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Redmond Spiderhammer, on 04 December 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

The problem is that direct fire LRMs would still be pretty close to useless... they just take too long to get there and if you take a longer time to get a lock or its harder to maintain, you'd probably get very few hits.

I don't care for the way they have made LRMs more of an indirect fire system only. Its too bad they don't have a direct fire mode with a minimal arc but significantly improved speed to target

You can blindfire LRMs and if they travel beyond 180meters, they will hurt for full damage. The problem is that the travel time is so slow they will never actually hit someone unless that enemy pilot is just stacking there picking his nose while reading a magazine. They are built around the lockon and tracking, so naturally, they are totally useless without it.(Which is now the case. You can't even get it back with an ally willing to use NARC or Tag for you, which is a failure on top of a failure)

[verybad]

BAP really should have some counter ECM capability, for instance, you shoudl be able to share information through ACM if you have BAP in a 1 vrs 1 situation. BAP isn't terribly useful in this game, and I'm at a loss as to why they are doing it this way.

ECM as it's own countermeasure isn't that great a system if only a few types of mechs can carry it.

Edited by verybad, 04 December 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[Grendalsh]

Ran a bunch of 8mech groups tonite. Of the 8 matches I ran tonite, almost every match the opposing team was over half ECM capable. I started out in my C1F, but after 3 matches, I got tired of having to close to 450m to use ML because NO ONE on the other team had a target box. I literally did not get a single lock on for 3 matches. One of the teammates threw TAG on his own C1 and went short range brawling. Overall, I think I saw maybe 6 LRM swarms per match, TOTAL from both sides.
There is no hard counter to ECM at present, and they make LRMS and SSRMS impossible to use except as direct fire weapons.. which is laughable. Ballistics and Energy weapons are not a counter, they're just the only effective weapons left.
I get ECM blocking targeting from ballistic missiles. I get ECM blocking targeting without LOS. But ECM should not counter visual silhouette detection when I have LOS. ECM should not be a hard counter to LRMs.
Guess it's off to PS2 until this gets resolved.

[wussie]

I've played 3 matches since the patch, lost 2 of them, died in 2 of them. I've found they're really boring now. The 2 teams just sit around in defense waiting for someone to come within range of large lasers or gauss. So boring. I'm not happy with ECM in game.

[Phingers]

yeah I am done....low ping US you cant kill...shame I really liked this game

[justin xiang]

I agree that this has made matches a lot more boring. I never use missile boats but find that ECM turns the game into a hassle. Would rather they just nerfed missiles and not bothered with the whole damned ECM *********.

[Kobold]

If LRMs/Streaks were broken, they should have fixed them.

Right now people just stopped using them because they've become nearly worthless, when you can just use direct fire weapons instead.

[MustrumRidcully]

Kobold, on 04 December 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

If LRMs/Streaks were broken, they should have fixed them.

Right now people just stopped using them because they've become nearly worthless, when you can just use direct fire weapons instead.

That's their balancing method, I suppose. Something is too powerful? Make it useless!

[McRoach]

Phingers, on 04 December 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Seriously unbalanced.

1.As players are learning they are switching to those mechs that can use ECM. At this stage early tactics the team that aint all wearing ECM will be stomped.......it will be driven home by the 8 man teams who target the few players with ECM first.

2. Any lock missiles are useless currently in game as everyone switches to ECM teams. Currently Missiles are pathetic.

3. the game is DE_EVOLVING currently into slug fests with the teams with less lag easily able to dominate laggy teams with the SLUG FEST OF LASERS AND BALLISTICS in your face from a SEA of Atlas, Cicada and Ravens

As a founder I have gone from having fun....to face palming, smacking my head into keyboard.

So wait...you actually preffered it when Streak Cats rocked you to sleep without reprisal, and LRMs melted your armour off quicker than a Fukoshima meltdown?

Only a few mechs can take ECM. Not everyone. Making Role Warfare even more important.
Picking your targets more carefully with LRM boats is key now - easier done when with others in your team that use ECM effectively.
Streak Cats - which were just completely OP in my opinion - now have to think twice about their EASY MODE choices. Streaks still work. You gotta find the 'weak spot' in ECM ranges.
Its back to actual lazer and ballistic fights, with Guided Missiles as SUPPORT roles, not LRM Rainclouds and Streak Gattling Guns.

Use it, don't use it.

[GatorG]

Bluten, on 04 December 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

It's not too early to judge it. In fact you could have done that pre-release if you read over its intended design functions and were clever. It very clearly needed nerfs or solid counters before it was even released. I also said the BAP could have been a counter.(And is in other games) This is the worst thing I've ever seen them do. They need to either seriously nerf this thing or greatly buff the BAP.

Really, less than 12 hours in is not too early to judge? I have stated that I like LRMs and do not like them being hurt, but in a small group have already determined how to work around ECM. Your response suggests to me that you are less interested in determining methods that work for you/your group, in the current environment and would prefer to see things continue in a way that you have already learned to work with.

[Clay Pigeon]

I still don't understand why guardian was given the null signature system's benefits, but not its drawbacks.

Giving ECM the ability to block lockons in addition to its other abilties makes it so the null signature system may as well not exist.

[Batch1972]

Not sure I like the ecm addition. As a pug you are relying on a random to bring it along along because not having having it puts you at a serious disadvantage if the other side has it..

As an example. One game tonight. PUG team, blizzard map,no ecm but everyone typing tactics( a massive improvement). Lasted all of a minute as lrm's wipe out most people because the other side is ecm shielded from sensors and yu cant see diddly.

If this is the way forward then I'll just leave the game.

[Felix]

McRoach, on 05 December 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

So wait...you actually preffered it when Streak Cats rocked you to sleep without reprisal, and LRMs melted your armour off quicker than a Fukoshima meltdown?

Only a few mechs can take ECM. Not everyone. Making Role Warfare even more important.
Picking your targets more carefully with LRM boats is key now - easier done when with others in your team that use ECM effectively.
Streak Cats - which were just completely OP in my opinion - now have to think twice about their EASY MODE choices. Streaks still work. You gotta find the 'weak spot' in ECM ranges.
Its back to actual lazer and ballistic fights, with Guided Missiles as SUPPORT roles, not LRM Rainclouds and Streak Gattling Guns.

Use it, don't use it.

You cant be serious can you? The Streak cats are already adapted!

They can just slap on a TAG because they already operate in close, and the time they have to keep it on target is negligible based on how fast and short their missiles are.

This only effects LRMs

[Atheus]

Felix, on 05 December 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

You cant be serious can you? The Streak cats are already adapted!

They can just slap on a TAG because they already operate in close, and the time they have to keep it on target is negligible based on how fast and short their missiles are.

This only effects LRMs

CPLT A1 (most common streak cat) doesn't have a laser hard point. So, nope.

[JukiMax]

Bluten, on 04 December 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

Well they finally hit that final nail in the coffin for LRMs.

Signed.

[McRoach]

Felix, on 05 December 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

You cant be serious can you? The Streak cats are already adapted!

They can just slap on a TAG because they already operate in close, and the time they have to keep it on target is negligible based on how fast and short their missiles are.

This only effects LRMs

Erm, so what are you saying? I'm saying ECM isn't that OP. Sounds like you are too. I didn't say Streak Cats are useless - they just have to be more skillful in their use. It's toned down the barrages to something more manageable. Which in my books is a WIN.

I just kinda feel sorry for anyone carrying ECM - they're the main targets now - which in an electronic warfare situation is understandable.

[Bishop won dai]

welcome to warfare
I don't think Nazis were all like, "freaking enigma machine! nerf that lame no skill noob engine."
learn to deal with new tech rather than calling nerf,
i mean nerfing is half the reason half the guns in this game are worthless.