235 replies to this topic

[Batch1972]

@ Bishop

This isn't real life, it's a game (and one that relies on people to pay). As such it needs to be as fair and enjoyable for the majority as possible.

Is it currently fair and enjoyable?

[Nauht]

Felix, on 05 December 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

You cant be serious can you? The Streak cats are already adapted!

They can just slap on a TAG because they already operate in close, and the time they have to keep it on target is negligible based on how fast and short their missiles are.

This only effects LRMs

Fail.

The A1, aka 6 SSRM "streakcat" has no laser hardpoints.

[DivideByZer0]

Just want to point out that TAG range is increasing to 750m according to forums/developer's corner/command chair

[Jonnara]

Nauht, on 05 December 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Fail.

The A1, aka 6 SSRM "streakcat" has no laser hardpoints.

No but the C4 i think it was has 2 of them and 4 SSRMs thats what his on about.

[Felix]

Nauht, on 05 December 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Fail.

The A1, aka 6 SSRM "streakcat" has no laser hardpoints.

Guess I have been doing mine a bit differently xD

[Alex Wolfe]

Phingers, on 04 December 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

As players are learning they are switching to those mechs that can use ECM. At this stage early tactics the team that aint all wearing ECM will be stomped.......it will be driven home by the 8 man teams who target the few players with ECM first.

Wait, what? Teamwork? Target priority? Actual direct fire weapons not being second fiddle to guided missiles? In my MWO?

Can't have that! Let's all go back to what we all know and love, okay? Back in the trenches with the lot of you while I press M1!


I want a balanced game, but would rather the devs err on the side of caution when it comes to 1km range point-and-click whackamole. No to INCOMING MISSILE ONLINE. If ECM is tweaked down, so should LRMs and streaks.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 05 December 2012 - 01:49 AM.

[Boymonkey]

I bought a 2D to try it out and I had a blast, but after a while I went back to my Hunchie and I noticed the battles are much more fun.
Like people have said it is a team game and you can counter ECM's if you know how.
Working as intended, some people really need to understand this is not like any other FPS.

[Suki]

Bluten, on 04 December 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

Well they finally hit that final nail in the coffin for LRMs. It was a long time coming with all the nerfs it has gotten. It was already in the gutter as far as value/performance went, but still usable, and now they decided to throw it out entirely. The problems that the ECM create for the LRM user are so numerous that I'm not even going to try to list them all out. Worse yet is the complete lack of any counter. Does your Artemis help any? Nope. 2 tons down the toilet. Would a BAP help any? Nope. 1.5tons down the toilet. A device that completely destroys long LRMs, an already weak weapon, has no counter for it. Not even the NARC or Tag Laser is allowed to do anything against this retardedly(whoops!) designed device. LRMs are now, finally, hopelessly, useless. They were already bad... now there's just no reason to use them at all. I don't understand why they made the BAP such a useless PoS while giving everything possible to the ECM. Why couldn't they do it like MW 4 Mercs did it? BAP improved radar/missile locks, ECM handicapped them. It made sense and they logically countered each other. If you had one and the enemy had the other; then you'd detect each other at normal ranges with equal devices because they would cancel each other out. But instead of doing... anything like that here, they give the BAP absolutely nothing of value while giving the ECM everything imaginable including immunity to the very device that is suppose to be its counter!

It's ultimately clear that Piranha has 0 intention for you to use LRMs anymore. Time to put all mine away in the hanger bay and shelf the C1 and C4 variants entirely.(My C1 will likely get an Energy/SRM remake just to keep using its boost. But the other 2 will be left behind.) I was trying to stick it out and was proud to make it to the top ends of damage score sheets with my aging rare LRM missile Mech despite how bad they've become. But that's it. They are worthless now. Before the ECM, it was, "My LRMs are bad, but I can still get the job done." Now it's, "why bother?" The game often won't let you lockon, at all. When you can, it takes too long to be worth the damage dealt. When you finally do it, the target drops before the missiles get there, so guess what, they hit the ground again. If all else fails, the AMS shoots half of them down anyway. Why bother anymore?

Every team will have players running ECMs and you've no counter for them, so why bother? I hope you're happy Piranha, with what is probably the most stupid implementation you've done since this game's creation. Games now also revolve around players having an ECM because it is so brokenly overpowered that the 4 variants using it are highest pick in the game(and will be forever, not just now). Did people treat the BAP like this? Hell no. No one cared about that then, and no one cares about it now. See the difference? One is brokenly useless, the second is brokenly OP. Neither should be the case.

I should add that players like myself voiced our concerns about how bad it would be to launch the ECM like this when they first announced it. Did that accomplish anything... at all? Nuuuuupe.

agreed to all written. LRM boats even before the patch were really rare, right now they are almost useless.
PS: nerfing the only weapon normally hitting lights with our broken netcode - guided missiles, is unreally good step!

[w0rm]

SSRMs are fine, just team up with a buddy in a cicada and keep killing. LRMs on the other hand are pretty much useless now.

[Nauht]

Jonnara, on 05 December 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

No but the C4 i think it was has 2 of them and 4 SSRMs thats what his on about.

That ain't a streakcat. It's a cat with lasers and streaks, just like the SP, jenner, any mech that can field missile hardpoints. They weren't so bad.

[Koningswulf]

Phingers, on 04 December 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

Seriously unbalanced.

1.As players are learning they are switching to those mechs that can use ECM. At this stage early tactics the team that aint all wearing ECM will be stomped.......it will be driven home by the 8 man teams who target the few players with ECM first.

2. Any lock missiles are useless currently in game as everyone switches to ECM teams. Currently Missiles are pathetic.

3. the game is DE_EVOLVING currently into slug fests with the teams with less lag easily able to dominate laggy teams with the SLUG FEST OF LASERS AND BALLISTICS in your face from a SEA of Atlas, Cicada and Ravens

As a founder I have gone from having fun....to face palming, smacking my head into keyboard.

I dont agree with you one bit on this. ECm is in now way OP, they cost tonnage and slots and are not by itself winning equipment. What they do is make a more hidden and cloak tactic in the battlefield and thats something that has been missing. In war the uncertainty what the enemy are going to do is what make us have and use reserves as well as the famous quete
"no plan survive contact with the enemy" if anything they make speed and mobilit even more valuable.
I for one like them very much.

[zariaah]

the ecm issues is not only nullifying targeting... its the camo effect it has on charging mechs.

Now you wont get any advance notice if you are being flanked. you will just be flanked, and then dead.

streaks were one of the only reliable ways for a large, onerous mech to flag down those quick pesky little scout mechs. now thats done for. now you have to contend with a tiny little raven hanging out below your targeting reticule in your mighty atlas at 20 metres.

[Wicksman]

Nauht, on 05 December 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

Fail.

The A1, aka 6 SSRM "streakcat" has no laser hardpoints.

Then problem solved...... streakcat has its downside, they were killing off the game far more than ECM ever will.

[Nauht]

zariaah, on 05 December 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

the ecm issues is not only nullifying targeting... its the camo effect it has on charging mechs.

Now you wont get any advance notice if you are being flanked. you will just be flanked, and then dead.

streaks were one of the only reliable ways for a large, onerous mech to flag down those quick pesky little scout mechs. now thats done for. now you have to contend with a tiny little raven hanging out below your targeting reticule in your mighty atlas at 20 metres.

Learn to shoot.

I've never played with SSRM's - to me they just don't do enough damage when you can only mount 2 of them. I can kill lights even with 250+ ping playing from Australia. Why? Cos I learnt how to compensate with direct fire weapons from the get go.

You relied on a crutch feature for far too long.

Edited by Nauht, 05 December 2012 - 01:49 AM.

[Suki]

Koningswulf, on 05 December 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

I dont agree with you one bit on this. ECm is in now way OP, they cost tonnage and slots and are not by itself winning equipment. What they do is make a more hidden and cloak tactic in the battlefield and thats something that has been missing. In war the uncertainty what the enemy are going to do is what make us have and use reserves as well as the famous quete
"no plan survive contact with the enemy" if anything they make speed and mobilit even more valuable.
I for one like them very much.

what "cloak" tactic are you talking about? on a map smaller then a handkerchief? there's less tactics whith every late patch

[zariaah]

Nauht, on 05 December 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Learn to shoot.

I've never played with SSRM's - to me they just don't do enough damage when you can only mount 2 of them. I can kill lights even with 250+ ping playing from Australia. Why? Cos I learnt how to compensate with direct fire weapons from the get go.

You relied on a crutch feature for far too long.

what is the opposite of:

"above you"

my first mech was a cicada with an ac/2 and 3 tons of ammo.

i can hit a zig-zagging jenner at a 1000m just fine thank you very much.

the issue with the atlas is where the cockpit is physically rendered on the screen for a player. you actually can't target a raven at 5m range because it is literally below your cockpit view.

and the real point i was making is the ecm is CLOAKING advancing units now to the point where carrying anything but med las and ac 20 is pointless cause ITS BRAWLING TIME. 'cause noone sees anyone else until they are all on top of eachother.

[Koningswulf]

Suki, on 05 December 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

what "cloak" tactic are you talking about? on a map smaller then a handkerchief? there's less tactics whith every late patch

I fully agree with you that the maps are small thats why I embrace the ECM since they make in effect the maps "bigger" since you now need to get closer to see the other opponent. This patch very much so did give us more tactics and also improved the need for scouts and flanking screens something that should be a must for every good commander to use.

[JukiMax]

Recent patch, effectively taking SSRMs and LRMs completely out of the game via ECM, is not good. Using LRMs with this size (small) maps to support class is not so good advantage as many ppl's think.
The joke is that some people on the forum are saying that ECM is more tactical. Seems that have to wait when devs balance a bit more ECM.

Surely it is ok that we have ECM but the problem is now that SSRMs and LRMs completely out of the game with it.

[TruePoindexter]

MungFuSensei, on 04 December 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

Two things.

First, I have seen very few people running their ECM in counter.

Second, I have seen very few people running TAG.

We were told in advance how to beat it. Don't complain if you're going to ignore these tips. ECM has finally balanced missiles in general. SSRMs and LRMs are now support weapons, to be used when the situation is right, instead of the boating weapons we've seen forever. Don't pout and fuss, innovate.

I will note that I have run my ECM in counter mode where appropriate and the effects are equally dramatic. I have not seen any missile boats equip TAG to try to counter ECM yet.

I'm still reserving judgement for a few days and hopefully a few organized matches.

Koningswulf, on 05 December 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

I fully agree with you that the maps are small thats why I embrace the ECM since they make in effect the maps "bigger" since you now need to get closer to see the other opponent. This patch very much so did give us more tactics and also improved the need for scouts and flanking screens something that should be a must for every good commander to use.

I will say that brawlers seem to have benefited a lot from the arrival of ECM to mask their movements.

[Alex Wolfe]

JukiMax, on 05 December 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

Surely it is ok that we have ECM but the problem is now that SSRMs and LRMs completely out of the game with it.

First of all, not "completely out of the game", you can shoot the ECMechs or get your own to jam them. That's teamwork. I heard LRM boats liked teamwork, or at least that's what I heard back during the Great LRM Wars .

Second, even if people refuse to "adapt" and "teamwork"... good riddance to this:



and this:



IMO.

LRMs are completely non-skill indexed, and as such should be support. Instead, because of their damage and how easy it was to use vs. the difficulty of countering, they were dominating. Nice to actually see the enemy while fighting again.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 05 December 2012 - 02:30 AM.