89 replies to this topic

[LynxFury]

"i just feel ecm shouldnt be stronger the further away you are from it,"

A way to think about it is imagine you're a room with another person. They are easy to hear if you stand next to them. If, however you are across the room, you might still hear them, but not very well.

Now Mr. ECM, cranks up a stereo next to the person.... if standing next to him, you might still be able to hear ok. If across the room however you can't hear their voice anymore.

Edited by LynxFury, 15 December 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[Rawrshuga]

So 20 days in and I think ECM is definitely OP. And I'm saying this as a light mech pilot!

Here's a simple solution. Beagle Active Probe should counter the effects of ECM, instead of the current, another ECM counters ECM.

In MWO implementation:
First only 4 mechs can carry the ECM, but all Mechs can carry the Beagle Active Probe. So while ECM is not always available the counter for it would be.

Second. Seeing as they weigh the same and occupy the same amount of slots it makes sense that one counters the other.

Now it may be difficult to make the ECM only remove the benefits of advanced targeting (e.g. NARC, TAG, etc.) but it would be absolutely no problem to have the COUNTER effect of the ECM module implemented into the Beagle Active Probe instead.

Net effect is that under the ECM 'cloak' long range radar sensor blocking is still in effect, but within the 180m range your BAP will still allow you to 'see' targets on your minimap, target them, lock on, etc.

For more balancing issues, the Beagle can be made slightly less effective by reducing the COUNTER range--in TT game its range was 4 hexes [120 meters] vs. the Guardian's 6 hexes [180 meters] range--giving ECM pilots the interestingly challenging task of maintaining their radar cloak within that 60 meter belt. This would make the ECM still rewarding for highly skilled pilots, but remove the ECM OP play that we have currently.

[MasterBLB]

The problem with ECM is it does too much at the same time (prevent lock,cloaks teammates,disrupts radar and target sharing) while requiring nothing from the user.Except laughable 1.5 ton and 2 slots.Sorry guys,but how you expect some balanced result from merging 3 different in TT systems in just one device?
For the start these functionalities should be spliced into separate devices either to prevent lock or cloak,then we could talk about balancing.

1.Lock preventing/Artemis etc disabling device
While in separate module this functionality could be left as it is,but absolutely there must be properly-working counters for it.As mentioned by predecessors,BAP should allow to archieve lock though with increased lock-on time,as well as TAG and NARC.

2.Cloak device
As above,in another separate device such functionality would be balanced.Of course,if requires counter means as well.BAP could increase distance for detecting cloaked enemies,and while inside bubble its user's radar should work unjammed but without information sharing with teammates.TAG/NARC should uncloak one affected mech.

And I'm telling that as ECM Raven driver - ECM in current form must go as it breaks the game.

[Rigiroth]

I like that it does change the game and how it does, I feel it just needs to be toned down a bit. Maybe allowing mechs to still fire on the enemy without transmitting information.

[Peiper]

from post 125 in this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...s/page__st__120

Garth Erlam, on 16 January 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Just to clear THIS thing up, I can assure you 3L Ravens aren't 'almost every Mech' (they actually aren't top 5, if memory serves, for the last 30 days.)

And again on ECM - if you wrote a well-written, well laid out post with a suggestion on the suggestion forums, the designers have seen it. I also collated and included PM's (Though I'd prefer you guys use the suggestions forum! ), emails (see PM's) and the like. The total email was about 6 pages in size, with the ECM suggestions being about a page/page and a half (and mostly links.)

We can't just knee-jerk change things though. We play the same game you do, often IN the same games you do, so we've both heard, and seen with our own eyes, what you're talking about. And although my mighty Cicada fears no ECM, I understand that every Mech is different, and has different requirements.

So to sum up - we're on it.

Here's crossing my fingers. This was an excellent discussion. The stats show that a MAJORITY of voters agreed with my proposal. I doubt that it will be picked up perfectly, point by point, but the discussion it generated, along with the alternative suggestions, should provide the developers with some well thought out food for thought in redesigning ECM. I would like to thank everyone who has voted and added their support for this poll and thread. I very much hope Garth picked this one to for the devs to look at, as the poll backs up the points of view and will provide both statistics for them to consider AND useful suggestions. If ECM is changed, and these suggestions (yours or my own) go through, you can feel proud to have contributed to the longevity and improvements in the game. So, all of you have my sincere gratitude. Thanks!

Edited by Peiper, 17 January 2013 - 06:13 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Because I have used ECM and been a recipient of its effects IRL, I recommend trying to implement it in such a way that reality might well be imagined. These suggestions are based on my playing other MW games, academic knowledge of some of the non-weapons technologies present in 3050-3060 vis-a-vis the canon, and, as stated, having practical experience with the capability:

Remember, ECM generates an electromagnetic field, it not an electro-optical spectrum disruptor. The latter capability is a whole other class of devices. ECM makes it hard to acquire a target, but it should not make it almost impossible.

1) ECM is supposed to support only the mech carrying it
2) ECM is supposed to affect friendlies the same way it affects opposing forces, that's why the scouts are not in the vicinity of the main force and are instead out doing their job;
3) The ECM mech is not supposed to get lock-on with it's target acquisition radar unless it, the ECM suite, is off;
4) ECM is not supposed to be a cloak to cover the main force (see point 1 above) leave that in Star Trek;
5) ECM, as implemented, has negated the need for a reconnaissance scout in Role Warfare;
6) ECM should not affect IR or laser designators (don't bring up Shtora, not the same idea)

look on wiki for TacJam or Compass Call. consider the sizes of the devices housed in those "vehicles" and compare against what we have ingame.

There is an opportunity to make MWO that video game we always wanted, but it if sticks too closely to the more questionable aspects of the canon technologies like Angel ECM and stealth armor, then it becomes farce.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 17 January 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[DanielZX]

Gremlich Jones +1, Current ECM is total ********. First of all why ecm prevents locking-on target while visual contact is avaliable? Why ECM disrupt's the normal work of on-board computer? This is idiotic, we use neuro-helmets not electronic eye-implants. Also why we can't shoot lrm's and streak when target is highlited with tag when ECM-mech is inside of 180m range? If LRM can be guided by TAG then LRMS use combined passive radar-optical targeting system, so we should be able to fire at ANY target which is highlited with TAG. Even in novels we can find description of using laser-based precision aiming systems what were able to track any part of enemy mech. ( Tag is very simpified version - just as laser marker)

[Spirit of the Wolf]

Heeyyyyyy!!!!!

ZOMBIE THREAD!

=/

[Xerxys]

Yes the changes need to conform with TT rules and I really like the changes to back down the power of ECM. The but part comes from Jammer pods being added.

[Peiper]

http://mwomercs.com/...h/page__st__140
Post 142.

I wish I could replace the OP here in this thread with the one above. I think I will add it to the OP, but I can't actually change the OP without changing the poll and that would invalidate it. Still, we're not allowed to talk about ECM anymore outside of the above thread, so copying the post into the OP might make me feel a little better! lol