253 replies to this topic

[Dukov Nook]

To completely negate a 65 ton Catapult or other missile boat, all a 35 ton ECM equipped raven needs to do is anklebite the opposing mech.

Period. A shot never has to be fired.

As the raven ankle bites the poor cat, negating 90% of his damage capabilities, essentially taking him out of the fight without any use of skill since an ECM raven can approach, in plain site, a LRM cat without worry (pssh, that cat has 2 medium lasers. THE HORROR)... and then simply circle him to keep his ability to lock 100% negated. 'But what about the main group. they no longer have ECM protection'...

Now that the LRMS are negated, all you have to worry about is streak cats. Focused fire fixes that. Once the main unit is down, the core body simply moves into the direction of the neutered LRM boat/boats to destroy at will.

the most basic tactic requiring less skill than a streak cat. Sure, it's a similar tactic as in the past, except in the past, your harassing mech had to work LOS to get close to the LRMs, and was typically a Medium. Now, the smallest mech can do it in plain site without even so much as a worry. Once the main group is engaged, this tactic is easy mode.

It breaks balance. The only counter is to stack support on your LRMs, or not take LRMS, which pulls off from the main body. Not a feasible option.

ECM has value, but by leaving Radar broken in it's pre-ecm state, it's given more value. ECMs will need an adjustment in their current state, or Radar will need to work more like it's real world component and allow for more than just 'LOS' tactical display.

[Bguk]

Can we merge all these ECM topics please?

[aspect]

Bguk, on 05 December 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

Can we merge all these ECM topics please?

It'll stop soon, I hope.

My impression of the ECM feedback: "ECM is unbalanced because the enemy team had more ECM's than my team did!"

[Armorpiercer M82]

Bguk, on 05 December 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

Can we merge all these ECM topics please?

looks like LRM was overused...

[Dukov Nook]

Armorpiercer M82, on 05 December 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

looks like LRM was overused...

Let me put this a different way.

You play basketball. In the past, if you wanted to shoot the ball, someone would have to put effort in to try and block you.

Now, Nike has released a new shoe that all a player has to do is stand by you to completely disable your ability to shoot the ball. He doesn't have to block you. He doesn't have to even be sneaky. He just needs to stand by you. That's it. And now you can't shoot the ball.

Oh, his shoes go faster than yours, so you can't run away from his AoE ball shooting nerf either.



That sounds like a rather frustrating basketball game, doesn't it.

[hammerreborn]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Let me put this a different way.

You play basketball. In the past, if you wanted to shoot the ball, someone would have to put effort in to try and block you.

Now, Nike has released a new shoe that all a player has to do is stand by you to completely disable your ability to shoot the ball. He doesn't have to block you. He doesn't have to even be sneaky. He just needs to stand by you. That's it. And now you can't shoot the ball.

Oh, his shoes go faster than yours, so you can't run away from his AoE ball shooting nerf either.



That sounds like a rather frustrating basketball game, doesn't it.

So shoot him with those lasers? Equip one or two srm4s? Have teammates to "pass" to?

[Lt Limpy]

Can I just add to the OP that an LRM Cat is already NEGATED THE SAME WAY REGARDLESS OF ECM DUE TO LRM'S MINIMUM RANGE!??!

[Grraarrgghh]

So basically your terrible snowflake LRM boat is now somehow worse than it already was?

Oh the humanity! Someone save the LRM boaters from their hell of having to run mechs that aim at stuff!

[hammerreborn]

Lt Limpy, on 05 December 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

Can I just add to the OP that an LRM Cat is already NEGATED THE SAME WAY REGARDLESS OF ECM DUE TO LRM'S MINIMUM RANGE!??!

He more means that he can't fire upon other targets rather than just the Raven. I.e. the raven instead of being immune to him now makes it impossible to also kill that atlas 500m away.

[Bguk]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Let me put this a different way.

You play basketball. In the past, if you wanted to shoot the ball, someone would have to put effort in to try and block you.

Now, Nike has released a new shoe that all a player has to do is stand by you to completely disable your ability to shoot the ball. He doesn't have to block you. He doesn't have to even be sneaky. He just needs to stand by you. That's it. And now you can't shoot the ball.

Oh, his shoes go faster than yours, so you can't run away from his AoE ball shooting nerf either.



That sounds like a rather frustrating basketball game, doesn't it.

And then, a player on the shooters team realizes they had a pair of Nikes' Enable Team to Shoot 3.0, they put them on, then stood at least 181m away from the blocker enabling the shooter to shoot. Or they had an enforcer on their team knock the disabler out, still enabling a shot to be taken.

[dal10]

you do realize you can blindfire lrms right, useless against the raven, but hitting atlases is not that hard with them, especially from around 200 meters.

[Aquilus]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

To completely negate a 65 ton Catapult or other missile boat, all a 35 ton ECM equipped raven needs to do is anklebite the opposing mech.

If only there was some kind of Short Range Missiles that could be fired without requiring a lock. PGI, get on it!

[Egomane]

Dukov Nook, on 05 December 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Let me put this a different way.

You play basketball. In the past, if you wanted to shoot the ball, someone would have to put effort in to try and block you.

Now, Nike has released a new shoe that all a player has to do is stand by you to completely disable your ability to shoot the ball. He doesn't have to block you. He doesn't have to even be sneaky. He just needs to stand by you. That's it. And now you can't shoot the ball.

Oh, his shoes go faster than yours, so you can't run away from his AoE ball shooting nerf either.

That sounds like a rather frustrating basketball game, doesn't it.

This block only works, because the blocked player is fixated on a special type of shoe. As soon as he changes his own shoes, the blocker wont be able to effectivly block him anymore and there will be a noticable result on the scoreboard.

[Ikarti Danaro]

dal10, on 05 December 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

you do realize you can blindfire lrms right, useless against the raven, but hitting atlases is not that hard with them, especially from around 200 meters.

GIN TERIYAKI, tell us that story about you, your headmaster, and a horse.

[Dukov Nook]

Bguk, on 05 December 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

And then, a player on the shooters team realizes they had a pair of Nikes' Enable Team to Shoot 3.0, they put them on, then stood at least 181m away from the blocker enabling the shooter to shoot. Or they had an enforcer on their team knock the disabler out, still enabling a shot to be taken.

So now you pull a guy away from the 4 on 4 scrum in the center court, giving them a man advantage so two larger skill players deal with a much smaller unskilled player using a special shoe.

Your numbers don't add up. LRM boats are typically much further out from the main group. Even at 500 meters out, pulling someone out to counter ECM gives a man advantage to the other team.

your scenario says 1 35 ton mech using ECM cheese, without firing a shot, can tie up 2 mechs now, with only 1 mech feasibly able to shoot, and insist there is balance?

[Rhanne]

Or... you could use teamwork, and have a meduim or light hang out by the lrm boats to protect them. Or have someone tag said raven so you can shoot em. Or call out the ECM mech and have your teamates take it out. You just found the paper to your LRM rock.

[Dukov Nook]

Egomane, on 05 December 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

This block only works, because the blocked player is fixated on a special type of shoe. As soon as he changes his own shoes, the blocker wont be able to effectivly block him anymore and there will be a noticable result on the scoreboard.

I see. Do you know of a standard LRM platform that equips ECM?

[Taryys]

my current thoughts:

Perhaps have increase the time it takes for the red triangle to appear to say like 5 seconds of visual contact which gives some stealth and simulates a sense of sensor jamming, and then have it just increase the time it takes to gain a lock and read tactical data. have it break the ability to share targets while within the radius. It should disable Narc and Artemis, but TAG should not be affected at all. Have ECM reduce sensor ranges by 25 - 50% or so instead of the 75% that it is now.

Allow BAP and the sensor module to work as they do by decreasing the time delay brought on by BAP/Sensor module.

BAP and the sensor modules will then have a place in scheme of info warfare.

[Lt Limpy]

hammerreborn, on 05 December 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

He more means that he can't fire upon other targets rather than just the Raven. I.e. the raven instead of being immune to him now makes it impossible to also kill that atlas 500m away.

I can see that point being made, but in my experience every LRM cat I rush up on freaks out and tries to target me instead, removing himself from the main fight anyway, as I take away his ears and add them to my necklace.

[Dukov Nook]

Rhanne, on 05 December 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Or... you could use teamwork, and have a meduim or light hang out by the lrm boats to protect them. Or have someone tag said raven so you can shoot em. Or call out the ECM mech and have your teamates take it out. You just found the paper to your LRM rock.

See my above reply. 1 mech taking 2 others out of a battle without firing a shot is not balance.