114 replies to this topic

[Asmosis]

watched a very effective A1 cat with dual atremis lrm 20's and 4x ssrm streaks decimate mechs by using the lrms as close range brawling weapons at ~200-300m range in conjunction with the ssrms. he was the last mech left on our team with 4 enemies left, only 1 of them survived.

It helped the ECM got taken out earlier of course, but he was picking things off before then, ppl didnt know if to run away from ssrms or try to close to block lrms.

Edited by Asmosis, 10 December 2012 - 06:09 AM.

[Col Forbin]

Kill3rAce, on 09 December 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

It can still be won, and to be honest if you have played 8 man groups lately. I only see a max about 3 ECM units on the regular at this point since the patch. Every once in a while you see losers run 8 ECM's but they can be beaten lol. Its not that hard

Did I say they couldn't be beaten?

[AlexWildeagle]

Col Forbin, on 05 December 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I don't mind the teamwork required... I enjoy it. My point is that LRMs were nerfed to account for massive LRM spam occurring pre-ECM. The LRM spam is not happening anymore. I think we can all agree that that ECM provides another large nerf to their usefullness...

I do have an Awesome with LRM 30... so I wouldn't call myself a "boater." I'm primarily a Jenner pilot anyways....

LRM spam is still going on. Almost half my matches yesterday were sans ECM and the missile rainbows continued.

As been said before, LRM boats and Streak cats are not what BT or MWO is about. You all might want to get use to making balanced mechs as LRMs and Streaks are support weapons not primary builds.

[Buckminster]

I wish people would drop this "support weapon" idea. A weapon is a weapon - it is meant to inflict damage and kill.

What makes a weapon "support" is how the pilot uses it. Someone advancing and actively engaging with LRMs is not "support", just as a cataphract hanging back with 4 AC/2s is. And saying streaks are "support" - that leaves me to believe that you do not own a dictionary, or at the very least do not understand the definition of "support" in a combat situation. Streaks are an extremely effective primary weapon (barring ECM) - it's why you see so many streak Cats, or so many streak Commandos.

[DisasterTheory]

While I normally use a brawling mech myself (Dual AC20 cat) I do like to dabble into the long range war on occasion. But now the ECM is pretty much screwing the LRM guys over hardcore. I use a 4xLRM15 Awsome with Arti and I still can get a few kills here and there, but the overall effectiveness of the loadout is worthless when you add the rediculous expense of the rearm cost.

[Abivard]

Col Forbin, on 08 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Sorry, you're offensive and I'd rather not. I'm not very concerned about my game skills, and I have more important things in my life than you trying to impress me. I am curious how you'd do with your LRM boat loadout in an 8-man group vs 6 ECM Atlases and 2 ECM Commandos, though.

A lot Better than you Think you can do thats for damn sure lmbao

[Dakkath]

I just wanted to pop in here and remind everyone to make sure you stay civil towards one another and post within the rules of the Code of Conduct and Posting Etiquette.

The rules are located here:
http://mwomercs.com/conduct
http://mwomercs.com/...ting-etiquette/

Please attack the post and not the poster.

Thank you all!

[Col Forbin]

Dakkath, on 10 December 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

I just wanted to pop in here and remind everyone to make sure you stay civil towards one another and post within the rules of the Code of Conduct and Posting Etiquette.

The rules are located here:
http://mwomercs.com/conduct
http://mwomercs.com/...ting-etiquette/

Please attack the post and not the poster.

Thank you all!

Thanks!

[RenegadeMaster]

Korm, on 05 December 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

I think TAG/NARC should be considered as a right counter for ECM.

I haven't read many suggestions for improving how ECM is used, but making NARC a counter for ECM would be excellent, and make NARC far more relevant.

[SpookShow]

Valaska, on 08 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Mate, I have no seen a single LRM in 2 days. I'm not kidding, not a single ******** LRM, thats how useless they are now lol.

Gonna smack you with the b.s. stick. Every game I have played for the past 6 months have at least one guy shooting LRMs.

[Buckminster]

SpookShow, on 10 December 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Gonna smack you with the b.s. stick. Every game I have played for the past 6 months have at least one guy shooting LRMs.

Nah, I have to agree that LRMs are on a huge decline. I've certainly played games without them, and a lot of times when I do see them it's from an Atlas D-DC with it's ECM in counter mode. I know My Cat C1 with the two Artemis LRM15s has been sitting in the garage lately in favor of my K2 and my SSRM/SRM6 A1.

[Force Majeure]

Make LRMs more powerful?!?
Are you mad!
My Founders Cat with 2 LRM20 Artemis makes Atlas-s cry like giant little babies!

LRMs are still very powerful. The EMS does make them harder to use against well rounded, well coordinated, not stupid teams... But in a pug match, it's like mowing the lawn!!!

If you feel your LRMs are not strong enough... maybe it's the pilot needs to get un-nerfed :-P

[Dimento Graven]

La Guillotine, on 10 December 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

Make LRMs more powerful?!?
Are you mad!
My Founders Cat with 2 LRM20 Artemis makes Atlas-s cry like giant little babies!

LRMs are still very powerful. The EMS does make them harder to use against well rounded, well coordinated, not stupid teams... But in a pug match, it's like mowing the lawn!!!

If you feel your LRMs are not strong enough... maybe it's the pilot needs to get un-nerfed :-P

Again, your statement invokes my "...vids of it, or it didn't happen..." auto response.

I'm sure your qualifiers apply, ie: an Atlas that stupidly walks out into the open, and stays in the open, with no ECM nor effective AMS coverage.

Still, I'd just like to see an Atlas cry...

[Col Forbin]

La Guillotine, on 10 December 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

Make LRMs more powerful?!?
Are you mad!
My Founders Cat with 2 LRM20 Artemis makes Atlas-s cry like giant little babies!

LRMs are still very powerful. The EMS does make them harder to use against well rounded, well coordinated, not stupid teams... But in a pug match, it's like mowing the lawn!!!

If you feel your LRMs are not strong enough... maybe it's the pilot needs to get un-nerfed :-P

What does piloting skill have to do with how much numerical damage a LRM does?

[Azru]

Buckminster, on 10 December 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Nah, I have to agree that LRMs are on a huge decline. I've certainly played games without them, and a lot of times when I do see them it's from an Atlas D-DC with it's ECM in counter mode. I know My Cat C1 with the two Artemis LRM15s has been sitting in the garage lately in favor of my K2 and my SSRM/SRM6 A1.

had to log in just to reply to this. So the D-DC counters other ECM so it can shoot at it when the ECM is within 180m so the LRMS don't do damage.

[MavRCK]

It's too soon to discount LRMs entirely. ECM is a huge game-changer and the best competitive teams are just starting to find a meta / strategy to include or exclude LRMs.

Because 8 man drops have no tonnage limit or mech-matching algorithim, is it very difficult - impossible - for competitive teams to explore the full-limits of current weapon viability and develope an optimal meta.

Once a tonnage limit or a 2-2-2-2 (light-med-heavy-assault) rule is in place, then the top teams will be able to determine how viable LRMs are.

Hopefully, MWO will nuture and develope its tourny / pro-scene ASAP. This is important for the long-term popularity and viability of the game!

GL HF! Happy Hunting... (to me... of you!

[Buckminster]

Azru, on 10 December 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

had to log in just to reply to this. So the D-DC counters other ECM so it can shoot at it when the ECM is within 180m so the LRMS don't do damage.

Lol, I didn't put two and two together. All I know is I've seen a lot of D-DC with their LRMs.

[Twisted Power]

BAP is suposed to counter ECM not the other way around. And ECM only worked on the unit that mounted it. Not team wide stealth. That would fix ECM just fine.

Edited by Twisted Power, 11 December 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[van Uber]

Col Forbin, on 10 December 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

What does piloting skill have to do with how much numerical damage a LRM does?

The damage IS balanced. What I suspect you have a gripe with is the frequency of LRM hits under heavy ECM usage? And that can not be countered with a higher LRM damage, it should be balanced with ECM countermeasures.

Again, there are plenty of PUGs with no to little usage of ECM. A readjustment of LRMs would prove fatal for those games. Just sit tight and wait for the changes that comes the 18th. And if you're still displeased I'd think that you would gain more support for your cause if you started lobbying for an adjustment of the BAP as a counter to ECM.

[tdswim]

Twisted Power, on 11 December 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

BAP is suposed to counter ECM not the other way around. And ECM only worked on the unit that mounted it. Not team wide stealth. That would fix ECM just fine.

I've seen a couple people in this thread mention that BAP should be used as a counter to ECM. I believe that this should be the case, at least in part. It doesn't seem right that the only counter to an ECM is another ECM.

Maybe some middle ground with BAP would be the best way to move forward. If you have LRMs and BAP, maybe just have standard targeting time or something to that effect instead of the really quick targeting we're used to with BAP. Maybe a decrease in accuracy would also be appropriate. So your BAP is countering at least partially and lock on isn't completely gone vs. an ECM mech and those surrounding it.

I put an ER laser in on my LRM cat so I can still hit the ECM atlas in the meantime while I'm waiting for someone to break from the ECM coverage zone. So I have compensated somewhat.

To show the effect, I went from averaging top 3 on the map and 2-3 kills per game pre ECM to averaging closer to the middle of the group and getting 1-2 kills post ECM. Far more often now I get killed before I take out an enemy mech after the ECM implementation.

I'm actually having more fun because I am brawling in my cat much more often against a team that wants to aggressively use ECM. With that being said, I'm frustrated that I invested in extended sensor range and BAP and still can't lock a target around an ECM mech.