198 replies to this topic

[Bad Karma 308]

I was following this thread to see how ECM impacted the game before I played the new patch. I've always favored my StreakKitty and was a bit sore that it was being taken down a peg. I was already dusting off my GaussKitty and even pondering changing up my streaker for a SRM6 A-1 build. But after the mixed reviews on this thread I decided to take her out and see how bad it really was.

At first it was really frustrating to walk into a brawl and only take hits, not give them. I was ready to strip it down and sell it off. But hoping all wasn't lost I re-examined my tactics. And human nature provided the clue. I found that I could get just as many kills and assists by enticing the enemy mechs to leave their ECM bubble. I'd make an run in like I was going to attack and then veer away at 150-200 meters at 80+ MPH. Just about every time a mech (or 2) would follow thinking I was incapable of targeting my streaks, At those speeds and angles they didn't realize that by turning to follow they had very quickly left their protective bubble. Now they are usually isolated and easy pickings.

Initially, light mechs with ECM did pose a problem , until I realized that as long as I pre-coordinated with a friendly ECCM mech, that I could stay within easy sprint distance and lure the light back to friendly lines, and again pick him off or share the carcase with friends. I did have a round with just a raven and I left so guess who won...../shame

Within a few rounds my kill & assists were right back up to usual numbers, unless we got steamrolled. But I will admit it is far more challenging now, but I enjoy that challenge, and I think I am the better pilot for it. Although I am a bit disappointed that it now seems that there are more than just a few base-rush only game occurring. That is boring as hell.

As long as you have a clear understanding of the battlespace you can force it to your advantage. So for all you posters saying they are glad the StreakCat is dead, no it is not. We just need time to adapt to the new environment, and we'll be back.

And I am sure the LRM world will eventually get going again once someone discovers a new technique.

Edited by Bad Karma 308, 05 December 2012 - 11:39 PM.

[Belkor]

Plut0, on 05 December 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Hi,

please change something with the ecm, the game is just no more fun. It is only hug the ecm mech ang hope your team has at least two of them, so one maybe won't suck. At the end mostly it is team with more ecm wins. And by the way you mostly see just altas dc-c and ravens out there not so much fun anymore ...

I am always playing Hunchback - No streaks but the game like this is just not fun anymore. As long as you play as a PUG your more screwed than before. And if you are a new player you feel like the game really sucks.

this is the way the game will just be for a small hardcore group and will just vanish over time. Very sad.

I am open to any hint how to play as a pug and have fun again. But at the moment I have no clue.

A very sad BT Fan who really liked to play .

Cheers

As a non ECM PUGer (Heavy mechs), I have no problem with ECM. In fact, it made the game far more fun for me with more brawls, tactics, moving out as groups and etc. I've had teams with no ECMs against teams that had ECMs; we still won. I don't think ECMs are as OP as people claim them to be.

[Belkor]

Drake Morgan, on 05 December 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Anyone who relies mostly on something like LRMs or Streaks is merely creating their own problems; versatility is key. It was true in tabletop, and with the implementation of ECM, it is true here. I for one have enjoyed the added layer of complexity. I pilot a Jenner primarily, armed with four sm lasers and two Streak SRM 2s. How does this affect me? I target non-ECM mechs with my streaks and lasers, and ECM carriers with just my lasers. I identify the ECM carriers and coordinate via chat (yes, TEXT chat) where the ECM folks are. We gang up on them and kill them as best we can. Lights now have to act like actual recon/harassment mechs. Attack, lead targets away from the safety of the ECM blanket, then your buddies destroy them. Can the ECMs be dumbed down? Sure, I suppose that is an option, but I don't see a problem with it. Learn to adapt your TACTICS and you will prevail. This is not really a casual game, per se. I'm no pro player; I might get five matches in a night, and I have a horrible K/D ratio, but I'm having fun...which means I don't care. If you can't find a way to enjoy this game, then perhaps it is not for you? I'm not ******* the OP, just pointing out that if you can't find a way to outhink ECM, this is definitely not the game for you.

Quoted for the truth. As a non ECM PUGer (Heavy mechs), I have no problem with ECM. In fact, it made the game far more fun for me with more brawls, tactics, moving out as groups and etc. I've had teams with no ECMs against teams that had ECMs; we still won. ECMs are not as OP as people claim them to be.

[Gulinborsti]

Nightcrept, on 05 December 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

I use a d-dc brawler so try again.

2xml
3xSRM6's
1xAC-20

I have however taken the time to try my lrm boat. And the lrm boat is unusable and my d-dc is god like.

i.e. unbalance.

If your just a lrm hater then go troll elsewhere. If your actually interested in making a good game with proper balance then bring up something relevant.

Hmm, I am still almost as effective in my LRM based support mechs as before the introduction of ECM.

I know I will be flamed for using the words "skill" and "LRM" in the same context. But with ECM introduced it takes a bit more than keeping the finger on the trigger to be effective with LRMs.

[Roadbuster]

I tried playing with my ECM Raven and had fun supporting my team or countering a hostile ECM mech.
I tried playing my LRM Catapult (with TAG and Artemis IV), dealing good damage and getting quite a few kills.
I tried playing other mechs equipped with different energy, ballistic and missile weapons and had fun.

The only thing that needs a fix is hit detection/netcode, especially for light mechs.

ECM only means you got to be more cautious and search for mechs with your eyes, using heat view and zoom.
People who ignore their surroundings and people who rely on target locks will have problems and need to adapt.
ECM might require some fine tuning, but it's quite ok overall.

Btw. the increased TAG range (they plan to buff it to 750m) will help too.

[Naeron66]

Plut0, on 05 December 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

I am always playing Hunchback - No streaks but the game like this is just not fun anymore. As long as you play as a PUG your more screwed than before. And if you are a new player you feel like the game really sucks.

This is what I predicted. ECM in 8v8 premades is balanced - because they have tactics and coordination. ECM in PUGS is far, far too powerful because its much easier to use than to counter.

No matter how much the "hardcore" that love premades and community warfare might talk on the subject MWO will not be a success unless it attracts a wider audience, to do that it must remain fairly simple to play and cater for solo casual players.

The previous MWO games were complex, that limited their appeal, there is a reason that games like the CoD and BF series were so popular, they were easy to play and fun.

[inquisitor]

JagdCrab, on 05 December 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Stop playing on calculator, get a PC.
ECM isn't make mechs invisible, it just not allowed you to target them. If you have problems with slight - it's your PC/Prefs problem, but not a ECM.

I never said it was due to ECM. Try replying to what is actually said and not what you make up in your head.

[Naeron66]

Nonoka, on 05 December 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Oh my god and **** me sideways, you mean I have to actually play as part of a team in a TEAM BASED game?

Just F'n stop there, nothing is preventing you from coordinating with your team except you. Don't try to pull that BS new player card. Your parents and your schools lied to you, you are not a special snowflake, get over it.

And this a good example of the arrogant elitist garbage coming from self-important players who think the game should only cater to their way of playing.

Yes its a team based game but that does not mean that players should be forced into premades and on to voice comms to avoid endless defeats, It may come as a strange concept to many here but some people don't worry about waving their K/D e-peen around, they play the game to have fun and they also play the game in short sessions.

All the fans of the BT Universe need to accept a compromise, one reason that its been so long since the last MW game is that they were not that successful, loved by the players but not with broad appeal. If you want a MW game that is around for a long time then you have to compromise and make the game easy for casual players and solo players because that is where the potential huge playerbase comes from.

[Elkarlo]

@ Geek
Your idea is nice and would help, but first the netcodes needs to be fixed... then you can hit the lights with the PPC.

I had in my Cataphract a Hit quote of over 75% with the ppc on running lights... i still have it as long as i am not under the ECM umbrella.. as soon as i am the Lag Shield goes up and my hit quote drops to 10%...

So first of all Netcode needs to be fixed, then the ECM mechs would die because atm hunting
Lag shielded ECM Mechs is no fun at all.

Heck i even have problems hitting a D-DC with ECM on and he is lag shielded...

[Kaelin]

Bad Karma 308, on 05 December 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I re-examined my tactics. And human nature provided the clue. I found that I could get just as many kills and assists by enticing the enemy mechs to leave their ECM bubble. I'd make an run in like I was going to attack and then veer away at 150-200 meters at 80+ MPH. Just about every time a mech (or 2) would follow thinking I was incapable of targeting my streaks, At those speeds and angles they didn't realize that by turning to follow they had very quickly left their protective bubble. Now they are usually isolated and easy pickings.

WHAT!? you used your brain! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! BAN HEEEEM!
/sarcasm.

although it's something of a dying art, that whole "thinking for yourself" thing... it's currently being replaced by " I'W SKWEEM AND SKWEEM UNTIW I'M SICK!" and " <whatever> is OP because I don't want to think of ways to counter it "

[Mr Mantis]

I don't think normal players are like you at all. I feel like a normal player and I love it!

Have you HUGGED your ECM today

[PurpleNinja]

Roughneck45, on 05 December 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

If you are not running streaks or LRMs, nothing has changed.

Like, who uses missiles theses days?
They're so out of fashion.
Besides, everyone have a Jenner, they're the new trend.

[Zylo]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

I'm seeing matches where half the team has an ECM pod at this point in PUG play, never mind premades- and it's barely been two days with ECM live. People would gladly drop 1.5 tons on AMS + ammo when it was helping save them from LRMs.

What makes you think they aren't going nuckin' futs for 1.5 tons of gear that saves them from LRMs, Streaks, and camos their 'Mech to get into brawl range to boot? The count on ECM-model chassis has been steadily creeping upwards in play.

That's a clear mark that ECM went past "useful" and slid straight into "Overkill" in it's ability to render portions of the game endangered species, at best.

This may be true now but how many of these players will still be running around in Ravens Commandos and Cicadas when collisions return and the best counter to these ECM equipped lights is ramming them, knocking them down and killing them?

[wanderer]

Zylo, on 06 December 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

This may be true now but how many of these players will still be running around in Ravens Commandos and Cicadas when collisions return and the best counter to these ECM equipped lights is ramming them, knocking them down and killing them?

And how soon will it be before we have more ECM-equipped models out there on the field?

AMS initially was limited to the Atlas-K. The devs rapidly applied AMS hardpoints to every 'Mech in the game shortly thereafter- even models that never had AMS to begin with. I fully expect ECM mounts to expand further into other designs and variants, and when they do- the ECM count in the game will jump even further. Right now, ECM is limited to a few fast chassis and one assault. This will most definitely NOT remain the case, and I fully expect we'll be seeing more and more teams with the majority of 'Mechs equipped with ECM pods.

While ramming is an effective method of slowing or stopping a fast target, it isn't a solution to ECM.

Ramming lighter 'Mechs will be a short-term solution at best.

[StUffz]

ECM does at the moment as it was designed for: being pesty for teams who are strongly relying on their electronics. ECM can be easily countered if you have someone with a BAP in your team and if you use Thermal view.

I would strongly recommend to adapt new tactics and also play as a team and not the lone ranger. Except Kurita but that's RPG based and by 3049 even the dracs have learned to adapt new tactics

[Dukov Nook]

Plut0, on 05 December 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Hi,

please change something with the ecm, the game is just no more fun. It is only hug the ecm mech ang hope your team has at least two of them, so one maybe won't suck. At the end mostly it is team with more ecm wins. And by the way you mostly see just altas dc-c and ravens out there not so much fun anymore ...

I am always playing Hunchback - No streaks but the game like this is just not fun anymore. As long as you play as a PUG your more screwed than before. And if you are a new player you feel like the game really sucks.

this is the way the game will just be for a small hardcore group and will just vanish over time. Very sad.

I am open to any hint how to play as a pug and have fun again. But at the moment I have no clue.

A very sad BT Fan who really liked to play .

Cheers

Brought a LRM boat to a pug fight last night, curious to see what ECM was like in the pug matches.

I'm guessing the pug's haven't fully figured out the ECM thing yet.

Edited by Dukov Nook, 06 December 2012 - 04:41 AM.

[Karenai]

LRM boating after ECM:




Both games the enemy had ECM. The one where Budor made 832 he was in a Hunchback.

ECM is just fine as it is.

[SpiralRazor]

You were pugging it, where the ECM isnt coordinated...like...at all..


You would be sorted right quick if you played in 8 mans.

[Roughneck45]

geek, on 05 December 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

What about PPCs hits disabling ECM for a good chunk of time? Like 30 seconds?

That would be awesome.

[Codejack]

Noakei Siegel, on 05 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

QQ me a river, plix. I am so happy that I must never face you PuGGies again(8vs8 anyone???)....and I have not read from a single dedicated team that ECM is overpowered, must be a pugthingy, now that premades are not longer available to be blamed for their lack of skill....

This is the attitude that will kill this game.