198 replies to this topic

[Codejack]

Sevaradan, on 05 December 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

even my units aussies have no problem hitting targets even with ballistics.

lag shield is way over rated.

Really? I'm in the Southeast U.S., supposedly the city with the fastest internet in the western hemisphere, but I get ridiculous lag. I've posted videos; hitting Jenners with multiple volleys of 6xSRM6s and nothing happening, hitting the fire button and weapons showing the cooldown cycle but not firing, etc.

[Nightcrept]

Kaelin, on 05 December 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Quoted for stupidity.

invisible

you show up just fine using the following;
thermal imaging.
Mk1 Eyeball.

<EDIT> oh, I'll agree completely with the SSRM oversight, they should still dumbfire.

lol...funny.

You know what i meant. In most boards you can use terrain to move around without being seen and ecm removes any other concerns.

Zylo, on 05 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Teams that know how to focus direct fire weapons on the ECM mechs are the teams that gain the advantage and the win. Even pug teams can be directed to do this if someone on the team takes the time to say something like "Focus fire that Atlas DDC with the ECM".

ECM doesn't need to be countered when the enemy mech running it is destroyed by direct fire weapons as these weapons still function against a mech running ECM.

If the entire team runs missile boats then yes, ECM on the enemy team will really make that match difficult.

Your talking about entire teams being forced to target and destroy one mech to win the game. And that isn't op.

[Codejack]

Willem B Cameron, on 05 December 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

That said, my gunnery skill as improved immensely since I can't lock on to anything.

Yea, great, what about those of us for whom gunnery skill is irrelevant because even if we hit, the server will disagree?

[Carcass23]

I love it when I see posts describing LRM boats as unusable. Poppycock! Logged into a game with LRMs just to test exactly how unusable they are. Still made a kill and did a ton of damage. Its a matter of using something rarely seen in game. It's called strategy. Thinking is hard. Reading is hard. I assure you though, your brain is like a muscle, if you use it it will grow stronger. Do not let your brain atrophy!

Edited by Carcass23, 05 December 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[wanderer]

Zylo, on 05 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Teams that know how to focus direct fire weapons on the ECM mechs are the teams that gain the advantage and the win. Even pug teams can be directed to do this if someone on the team takes the time to say something like "Focus fire that Atlas DDC with the ECM".

I'm seeing matches where half the team has an ECM pod at this point in PUG play, never mind premades- and it's barely been two days with ECM live. People would gladly drop 1.5 tons on AMS + ammo when it was helping save them from LRMs.

What makes you think they aren't going nuckin' futs for 1.5 tons of gear that saves them from LRMs, Streaks, and camos their 'Mech to get into brawl range to boot? The count on ECM-model chassis has been steadily creeping upwards in play.

That's a clear mark that ECM went past "useful" and slid straight into "Overkill" in it's ability to render portions of the game endangered species, at best.

[Nightcrept]

Carcass23, on 05 December 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

I love it when I see posts describing LRM boats as unusable. Poppycock! Logged into a game with LRMs just to test exactly how unusable they are. Still made a kill and did a ton of damage. Its a matter of using something rarely seen in game. It's called strategy. Thinking is hard. Reading is hard. I assure you though, your brain is like a muscle, if you use it it will grow stronger. Do not let your brain atrophy!

Nonsense. I have played dozens of games with my lrm boat since the patch and it is unusable against ecm. If there is a ecm boat your useless.

[Felix]

Codejack, on 05 December 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Yea, great, what about those of us for whom gunnery skill is irrelevant because even if we hit, the server will disagree?

Gotta love the stupidity that is server side hit detection huh?

[wanderer]

Carcass23, on 05 December 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

I love it when I see posts describing LRM boats as unusable. Poppycock! Logged into a game with LRMs just to test exactly how unusable they are. Still made a kill and did a ton of damage. Its a matter of using something rarely seen in game. It's called strategy. Thinking is hard. Reading is hard. I assure you though, your brain is like a muscle, if you use it it will grow stronger. Do not let your brain atrophy!

I'm finding LRM boats get severely curtailed if the enemy team just stays in it's ECM bubbles.

Of course, anything that ISN'T I can pummel as normal, but what I keep seeing is groups advancing through cover with ECM until in brawl range- at which point, your LRM user is dumbfiring missiles in wide spreads that a 50kph Atlas can outmaneuver or stuck using their secondaries on targets they would have blasted respectable chunks of armor off of on the way in, but are instead fresh and blasting them with AC/20's at 200m.

When even PUGs are learning fast that the blue eye means they can close with impunity, it's a nail in the coffin for LRM use.

[Sevaradan]

Codejack, on 05 December 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

Really? I'm in the Southeast U.S., supposedly the city with the fastest internet in the western hemisphere, but I get ridiculous lag. I've posted videos; hitting Jenners with multiple volleys of 6xSRM6s and nothing happening, hitting the fire button and weapons showing the cooldown cycle but not firing, etc.

yea I run a D-DC brawler (pretty much exclusively 330k+ xp on it after mastering) and if I play well I have a very solid chance of killing a light 1v1 even w/o ecm, and I dont even have fancy super internet (no fios etc)

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

I'm finding LRM boats get severely curtailed if the enemy team just stays in it's ECM bubbles.

replace ecm with AMS and you have the same situation assuming semi intelligent pilots. Being able to reduce/eliminate the LRM threat is nothing new.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

If you didn't use missiles, not much was changed. What was finally buried for good was LRM boats. That used to be a good role, and had good supporting damage. Now it's pointless. Game won't let you ever get a lockon anymore. Even the BAP, which is suppose to be the main counter to ECM, does absolutely nothing. So you stacked your Mech up full of missile ammo boxes with an Artemis and BAP to further increase your missile firepower... and you can't even get a lockon anymore. LRMs already sucked. They were already below average at best. Now they're buried in the grave they were already trying not to fall in.

Streaks also got buried. While they were OP before... they shouldn't have been scrapped entirely. But no missile lock=no point. You may as well dumbfire the lighter SRMs. ECM should have only slowed lock on time vs missiles, not stopped it entirely. Even if an item countered the lock stop(like the BAP should be doing), the missiles would still be useless without also mounting the counter. It would be required. So that wouldn't be a solution.(But at least it would have given you the option at this current moment... instead of nothing at all.)

[Felix]

Sevaradan, on 05 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

replace ecm with AMS and you have the same situation assuming semi intelligent pilots. Being able to reduce/eliminate the LRM threat is nothing new.

AMS required 1.5 tons, ammo, and a bit of thinking, ECM cuts out two things and has the added benefit of not even allowing targeting in the first place and having no possibility of being overwhelmed

[Sevaradan]

Felix, on 05 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

AMS required 1.5 tons, ammo, and a bit of thinking, ECM cuts out two things and has the added benefit of not even allowing targeting in the first place and having no possibility of being overwhelmed

yea undoubtedly ECM is better than AMS, but the point is still valid good tactics have always been able to negate LRMs

[Kaelin]

Nightcrept, on 05 December 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

You know what i meant. In most boards you can use terrain to move around without being seen and ecm removes any other concerns.

no I don't. you need LOS to lock under normal circumstances anyway.

and hey, I drive a HBK-4G I pretty-much have to dry-hump my targets anyway... anything that forces LRM's back to be a support weapon is good in my books; a lot of the matches I played I might as well be fighting Calliope turrets from MW4...

[Nightcrept]

Sevaradan, on 05 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

yea I run a D-DC brawler (pretty much exclusively 330k+ xp on it after mastering) and if I play well I have a very solid chance of killing a light 1v1 even w/o ecm, and I dont even have fancy super internet (no fios etc)



replace ecm with AMS and you have the same situation assuming semi intelligent pilots. Being able to reduce/eliminate the LRM threat is nothing new.

AMS? You might shoot down most of the lrms at best but your still going to take damage and your still going to take fire.

Currently in many games I ran tonight I ended up dumb firing lrms out of frustration and then rushing to brawl with my 4ml's.

Kaelin, on 05 December 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

no I don't. you need LOS to lock under normal circumstances anyway.

and hey, I drive a HBK-4G I pretty-much have to dry-hump my targets anyway... anything that forces LRM's back to be a support weapon is good in my books; a lot of the matches I played I might as well be fighting Calliope turrets from MW4...

You don't need los to lock. And if you could lock on with los then it wouldn't be a big deal but you can't. CAN'T.

If ecms just took away non-los then it wouldn't be op imo. But when you can see a d-dc running at you from 1000 yards off and are helpless its op.
Your statement that lrms are now a support weapon is false. It is now combat ineffective.

Edited by Nightcrept, 05 December 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[Sevaradan]

depends on how many launchers are firing at me and how many ams we have in range, esp if you have atlas Ks around w 2x ams you can easily walk through 2x lrm 20 fire taking 0 damage.

[Kaijin]

AlexWildeagle, on 05 December 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

Laughing my *** off here. ECM makes the easy mode folks cry. Now you have to learn how to actually play the game. Missiles are a support weapon only. The way it was before ECM is never what BT intended. ECM has made matches more like BT matches once again.
Visibility? Theres no change I can still see across the map just like before except for frozen world, but the viz has always sucked there.

I knew there would be mass whining as soon as they removed easy mode. No more sitting back and emptying your missile racks, no more mechs of missiles without being really vulnerable.

oh, andI have had multiple matches where there was no ECM and others where it wasn't useable as the scout was....well scouting and the fatlas moves to slow. But a lot less missile boats....WAHOO!!!!

Missile mechs were always vulnerable, with their minimum range of 180m. It's not 'easy' mode I'm lamenting the loss of - it's the mix of weapons and weapon ranges that have now been reduced to direct fire brawling only. That's not BT. How is it any different from a garden variety shooter now?

Edited by Kaijin, 05 December 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[LOWJACKCITY]

I refuse to roll with ECM in my own team, on principle. Id rather go off and fight alone and die like a man. Its cheap as hell and has no drawbacks. Stick to my guns for a game I enjoyed playing. All you ECM idiots should stop using streaks, oh wait you wont cuz you just want to faceroll while you can.

[wanderer]

Sevaradan, on 05 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

replace ecm with AMS and you have the same situation assuming semi intelligent pilots. Being able to reduce/eliminate the LRM threat is nothing new.

I could actually run people out of AMS ammo, and did it often enough during matches. Was one of the nice things about the -RS launchers, the smaller groups were just enough to keep AMS firing longer without losing too much more of the salvo to AMS fire- and I learned all kinds of tricks to help get my missiles inbound to target anyway.

ECM doesn't run out of ammo and reduces LRM fire at range to zero. That's a LOT more powerful than even stacked AMS, considering it only takes a single 1.5 ton investment to get effective 100% coverage, even against 'Mechs who normally could fire enough missiles to overwhelm a single AMS system with ease.

[Nightcrept]

Sevaradan, on 05 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

depends on how many launchers are firing at me and how many ams we have in range, esp if you have atlas Ks around w 2x ams you can easily walk through 2x lrm 20 fire taking 0 damage.

I run atlases and use 2ams on one. It is easier but I still take damage if I am not careful. Well I used too. Now I just tell my ecm scout to protect my but while I bash people away from him.

It would be better imo to double ams output then what they have done with the ecm.

They could even still bring ecm in line with classic MW and have it still block non-los targeting.

[Kaelin]

Nightcrept, on 05 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

But when you can see a d-dc running at you from 1000 yards off and are helpless its op.

how are you helpless? if you've only got LRM's then try "leading the target" estimate the flight time of the missiles, and make a guess where the target is going to be in that time, then pull the trigger. you might hit, you might miss. kinda applies to any weapon that's not hitscan.

but helpless...? really?

<SSRM oversight notwithstanding>