84 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

PropagandaWar, on 05 December 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

Heres a suggehstion make lrms go to last know location fired. Not guided.

They may as well do that. Because if you use LRMs now you're basically committing suicide. You can't shoot the enemies with them, so you may as well be shooting yourself. What was already a weak weapon and role is now completely pointless. If the developers didn't suddenly hit the crackpipe, they wouldn't have made this device so stupidly OP and also would have made the BAP be a counter weapon so missiles were still viable. Now there's no point. The entire hardpoint is pointless unless you just want to dumbfire SRMs. I'm glad I bought a full Energy Hunchback instead of that one with the missile shoulder. But I also had the 4SP... so I guess that one will be getting dual SRM 6s.

[Carnifax]

Ok my Cat founders mech is now crippled even with art 4 and beagle i cant get a lock at all. ECM should limit lock range or effect number of missile hits not completely disable entire weapons ability to work. Art 4 and beagle should at the very least allow locks to still occur otherwise their abilities have been rendered useless along with streaks and lrms by one item.

I am all for ECM changing lock ranges, missile hits, and lock on speeds but complete disabling is significantly OP,

[Purlana]

Camulos, on 05 December 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Here is a tip.....knowing that ECM will be out there STOP MAKING ALL STREAK LOADOUTS!!!! Vary your loadouts, mix it up between Streak SRMs and normal SRMs.....

Streak SRM2s were originally designed in this game for ultra fast scout mechs fight other ultra fast scout mechs that are hard to hit with conventional weaponry. It is slightly different from TT but it HAS to be different due to game mechanics.

Streaks were not initially implemented in this game to be boated by the dozen to wreck everything they come across.

So if they decided to make all laser weapons borderline useless your "solution" would be to stop using lasers?

That's how you balance games?

Edited by Purlana, 05 December 2012 - 06:47 PM.

[River Walker]

Quazil, on 05 December 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

AC/2's are about the same if not worse.
BTW the only thing stopping you from shooting back is you.
You can still pull the trigger. You still have the targeting reticule.
You may no longer be able to 'aim for the eyes Boo!' but you can aim, fire, & hit.

Lasers are under-powered in this game and this is fundamentally due to the broken way heat and heat-sink are implemented.
You are suppose to be able to fire 8 PPC blast in 30 seconds in an Awesome with 0 heat build-up with (IIRC) 28 HS.
The numbers crunched out for MWO say you need 30 HS to fire 1 PPC continuously - 90HS for 3 PPC!

Sorry to tell you buddy but you cant shot what you cant see and you cant see if you have 2 or more SSRM boats hammering you, all you see is Black and a HUD bouncing around all over the place. So I am so glade to see the ECM at last to stop you SSRM boater.

[Felix]

Quazil, on 05 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

ECM is implemented per BT rules and can be countered numerous ways.
Missiles have been over-nerf'd because ECM wasn't present when they were at full damage and hit-rates.
Lasers are also over-nerf'd due to the heat implementation.
Auto-cannons are also horribly screwed up due to nerf'd heat-sinks.
Guass is the only weapon that's implemented close to TT so it's twice as effective as anything else (once LRM missile spread and ECM are considered.)

ECM is NOT implemented as per BT

ECM made it about 20% harder to hit your target with guided weapons, not negating them without tag

[80Bit]

I really don't understand how people can claim dumb-fire weapons take "skill" to fire and lock on weapons take "no skill" to fire. If your definition of skill is "the ability to point your crosshairs at an enemy" then streak weapons meet that definition as well. Except you have to keep hold the crosshairs on their for several seconds before you can fire.

Lock one weapons took skill to fire, and now take even more skill to fire. Yes they home, but that does not mean you don't have to think about how to use them. From where, on what target, how many vollys, is the flight path clear, will the lock break before the missles get there, how to you keep yourself from getting destroyed by lights.

With ECM it makes it even harder.

Saying lock on weapons are noob no skill weapons just shows a lack of understanding regarding the dynamics of this game.


Edit: Oh an the only lock on weapons I have used for months are SSRMs on my Commando. Because I PUG and LRMS are team weapons that take (even more now) team work to use right.

Edited by 80Bit, 05 December 2012 - 06:50 PM.

[Kaijin]

Deadoon, on 05 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

It's harder than having the computer do the aiming for you.

The computer is always doing the aiming for you. You're just moving a mouse around.

[River Walker]

Purlana, on 05 December 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

So if they decided to make all laser weapons borderline useless your "solution" would be to stop using lasers?

That's how you balance games?

No he saying use more than a 2SSRM on that Mech and you wont have a prob with dealing with a ECM Mech.
You can just shot it then with something other than a 2SSRM.
See no more prob.

[Purlana]

River Walker, on 05 December 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

Sorry to tell you buddy but you cant shot what you cant see and you cant see if you have 2 or more SSRM boats hammering you, all you see is Black and a HUD bouncing around all over the place. So I am so glade to see the ECM at last to stop you SSRM boater.

AC/2, AC/5, and Ultra AC/5 boats do the exact same thing.

River Walker, on 05 December 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

No he saying use more than a 2SSRM on that Mech and you wont have a prob with dealing with a ECM Mech.
You can just shot it then with something other than a 2SSRM.
See no more prob.

If you use 1/4th of your weapon crit slots on LRM or streak missles and you come up against an ECM Mech your still ******.

Edited by Purlana, 05 December 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[wanderer]

Quazil, on 05 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

ECM is implemented per BT rules and can be countered numerous ways.

It's not even CLOSE to being implemented by table-top rules. At this point, MWO's Guardian ECM functions better than TT's upgrade (Angel ECM) being run in ghost target + standard jamming mode together at once.

Overkill.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Nightcrept, on 05 December 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

Uneducated post. LRMS cannot be aimed. Now they cannot get a lock at all. So LRMS are non-viable. So try making your guns deal no damage.

LRMs CAN in fact be aimed a bit while dumbfiring, they will fire where you aim them like EVERY other non-lock weapon....... then again, you did state your post was uneducated before you made it *shrug*

All I'm hearing on the other side of this argument is wah wah wah missiles aren't the best option for their weight hands down anymore.... Too bad? Perhaps now their damage needs to be adjusted a bit as I've stated before, but they are FAR from useless, either counter the enemy ECM and go to town, go after mechs without COUNTER MEASURES to missiles, as is stated in its name.... or learn to carry an assortment of weapons, guess what, SRMs have been 100% UNAFFECTED by ECM, they never required a lock to begin with.... perhaps you should start carrying some of those instead of boating SSRMs or LRMs?

The Devs have stated that they want to detour people from boating weapons, this is an excellent step in that direction, now you can either choose to utilize other hardpoints/weapon systems, or you can be rendered useless when you come up against a mech designed to counter the ONE weapon system you decided to carry on the field.


Boating is a great tactic, I'm all for it, I've boated streaks, I've boated lasers, I've even tried boating LRMs, the key is, and it's being more enforced now, is if you're going to boat, you can't go out alone and expect results, learn to stick with your group. Guess what, they have the ability to have ECM too, which levels the playing field completely, ECM only gets lopsided when you have a mech with ONLY targeting required weapon systems, and even then, only if you were DUMB enough to move away from your lancemate that had an ECM capable of countering the opponents...

Edited by Ehrithane, 05 December 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[Obadiah333]

80Bit, on 05 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I really don't understand how people can claim dumb-fire weapons take "skill" to fire and lock on weapons take "no skill" to fire. If your definition of skill is "the ability to point your crosshairs at an enemy" then streak weapons meet that definition as well. Except you have to keep hold the crosshairs on their for several seconds before you can fire.

Lock one weapons took skill to fire, and now take even more skill to fire. Yes they home, but that does not mean you don't have to think about how to use them. From where, on what target, how many vollys, is the flight path clear, will the lock break before the missles get there, how to you keep yourself from getting destroyed by lights.

With ECM it makes it even harder.

Saying lock on weapons are noob no skill weapons just shows a lack of understanding regarding the dynamics of this game.


Edit: Oh an the only lock on weapons I have used for months are SSRMs on my Commando. Because I PUG and LRMS are team weapons that take (even more now) team work to use right.

I severely hope that you are trolling. Otherwise, you have taken whatever credibility you might have had and completely and utterly destroyed it forever.

[Nightcrept]

Obadiah333, on 05 December 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

I severely hope that you are trolling. Otherwise, you have taken whatever credibility you might have had and completely and utterly destroyed it forever.

He could have claimed that ecms weren't op. That would have lost him more credibility points.

[Zylo]

Nightcrept, on 05 December 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

Uneducated post. LRMS cannot be aimed. Now they cannot get a lock at all. So LRMS are non-viable. So try making your guns deal no damage.

LRMs actually can be aimed if you understand how the missiles behave after being fired. This is a side effect of the LRMs heading to the last known location of a mech if lock is broken.

If you happen to get lock back after that time you can use this to aim the LRMs around buildings or terrain if you get the timing right.

[River Walker]

Purlana, on 05 December 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

AC/2, AC/5, and Ultra AC/5 boats do the exact same thing.



If you use 1/4th of your weapon crit slots on LRM or streak missles and you come up against an ECM Mech your still ******.

AC UAC do not blind the pilot all so the Nook has been cut back a lot. Not so with the 2SSRM , if you get hit with more than one player with thee your A$$ is GRASS. you cant fight back you cant see you cant Aim you are a Stan in the Grass.
I say it again THANK THE PGI GODS FOR ECM.

Edited by River Walker, 05 December 2012 - 07:07 PM.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

wanderer, on 05 December 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Heck, you don't have to press a single button. Just stay in the bubble and trot along without a care until you can get to nose-picker range and show off teh l33t skills firing at ranges where missing should be a criminal offense.

LOL! Right.... because hovering over a target that is 1000m away and simply waiting until you know where they are on the map (anyone that's been here as long as the vast majority of us has a pretty good idea of the layout of every map) is MUCH more difficult than trying to keep your torso crosshairs on a jenner that is right next to you, moving over 130kph with his hitbox 10 feet in front of him....

It's hilarious how delusional LRMers are about their "skills"

Edited by Ehrithane, 05 December 2012 - 07:09 PM.

[Purlana]

Who gets hit by non-locked LRMs? Unless your target is standing still, they will never land....

Edited by Purlana, 05 December 2012 - 07:09 PM.

[Nightcrept]

Zylo, on 05 December 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

LRMs actually can be aimed if you understand how the missiles behave after being fired. This is a side effect of the LRMs heading to the last known location of a mech if lock is broken.

If you happen to get lock back after that time you can use this to aim the LRMs around buildings or terrain if you get the timing right.

I am very good with lrms. Problem with what your saying (and I do try it when I still try to play lrms) is the speed and flight speed of the lrms.

And with ecms you can't get any lock at all to steer them around buildings and terrain. If you know how please share the love.

[80Bit]

Obadiah333, on 05 December 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

I severely hope that you are trolling. Otherwise, you have taken whatever credibility you might have had and completely and utterly destroyed it forever.

Care to actually respond to the content of my post? I know that's something forums don't see much of, but you wouldn't want to utterly destroy your credibility would you?.

[Nightcrept]

River Walker, on 05 December 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

AC UAC do not blind the pilot all so the Nook has been cut back a lot. Not so with the 2SSRM , if you get hit with more than one player with thee your A$$ is GRASS. you cant fight back you cant see you cant Aim you are a Stan in the Grass.
I say it again THANK THE PGI GODS FOR ECM.

Your lack of understanding of proper balancing is staggering.

Ehrithane, on 05 December 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

LOL! Right.... because hovering over a target that is 1000m away and simply waiting until you know where they are on the map (anyone that's been here as long as the vast majority of us has a pretty good idea of the layout of every map) is MUCH more difficult than trying to keep your torso crosshairs on a jenner that is right next to you, moving over 130kph with his hitbox 10 feet in front of him....

It's hilarious how delusional LRMers are about their "skills"

It's just as hilarious how delusional brawlers are.

It's hard to hit a jenner with anything. Even harder with a lrm and to beat it all most of the lrm boaters you refer to have to fight off the jenners as well so they can generally aim too. Gasp imagine that.