3036 replies to this topic

[Aidan McRae]

CapperDeluxe, on 05 March 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

You only get to flush once for MC and twice for CBills ...

So it'll only save your behind once or twice the ENTIRE game...

How exactly is this P2W? No really I'm extremely confused here. Like to the point of shoving a light bulb up my butt to see if it'll just come to me because my brain which is at all times focused on logic (programmer here), sees no logic that could come to the P2W conclusion.

Sigh. Read more, post less. Cbills - 2 module slots for two heat reductions, one of 15, one of 20 for a total of 35%. MC - 1 module slot for one heat reduction of 35%.

2 module slots versus 1 module slot. *That's* the issue. Same net benefit. You can bang-bang both of your Cbill heat reductions in a row, but you just wasted an extra slot that a paying player didn't have to.

[Yokaiko]

CapperDeluxe, on 05 March 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

You only get to flush once for MC and twice for CBills ...

So it'll only save your behind once or twice the ENTIRE game...

How exactly is this P2W? No really I'm extremely confused here. Like to the point of shoving a light bulb up my butt to see if it'll just come to me because my brain which is at all times focused on logic (programmer here), sees no logic that could come to the P2W conclusion.

Ok now take 8 guys (soon 12) that ALL have MC airstrike and artillery and coolant flushes. Remember 4 slot mechs are a rarity and 3 slots is most common. These guys can't hit you with every consumable in the game....where the free player (or just out of MC) is restricted to at most TWO of those effects.

It LOGICALLY buying a paid for advantage.

[Aidan McRae]

Olivia Maybach, on 05 March 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

This is exactly how I feel, except that I'd modify that to add that 90% of the time, it wont make any difference at all (miss, hit different armor area, etc). I really don't think this is going to be as unbalancing as people think, given the number of shots fired in a typical game.

The fact that you recognize it as any form of unbalancing...why are you okay with that? Imagine the next time they bring in something 'not so unbalancing'. And the next. Oh, now I'm going to use this little MC thing, and this one, and this one. Now I can do XY AND Z that F2Players cannot.

[Mechteric]

Yokaiko, on 05 March 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Ok now take 8 guys (soon 12) that ALL have MC airstrike and artillery and coolant flushes. Remember 4 slot mechs are a rarity and 3 slots is most common. These guys can't hit you with every consumable in the game....where the free player (or just out of MC) is restricted to at most TWO of those effects.

It LOGICALLY buying a paid for advantage.

Ok but that means with CBIlls you can save your butt up to TWICE from overheat, MC only once. Sure the MC one is more, but in the world of high heat alphas that's not gonna help (e.g. a 6PPC Stalker). He'll get one more alpha out and thats it. Done.

Anyway this speculation is pretty sad anyway, I really just want to see how effective it is in game. If my hypothesis is correct, it won't do a whole lot. It may save your bacon in a rare situation, but will it really change the tide of warfare? I think not.


EDIT: this discussion is only about coolant flushes, seeing as how we don't have details on the mechanics of airstrike and arty its pointless to bring it up here.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 05 March 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Ralatar]

CapperDeluxe, on 05 March 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

You only get to flush once for MC and twice for CBills ...

So it'll only save your behind once or twice the ENTIRE game...

How exactly is this P2W? No really I'm extremely confused here. Like to the point of shoving a light bulb up my butt to see if it'll just come to me because my brain which is at all times focused on logic (programmer here), sees no logic that could come to the P2W conclusion.

Ok, let me break it down for you sir.

Raven (ECM) with 4 module slots:

Buying with MC (if PGI stays with the proposed consumable model) a pilot will be able to load 4 top lv consumables onto his fast ECM'ed POS raven.

Buying with CBills a pilot will be able to only load consumables that equal 2 top lv MC consumables onto his fast ECM'ed POS raven.

We currently see a number of 4 man drops running raven packs at times. That would quickly become a norm....see if it doesn't. At that time you will see only mech's that have 4 module slots being run because if you don't you aren't competitive. So yes BIG P2W model ensues.

This is if PGI make the Airstrikes or others operate similar to the CF.

Edited by Ralatar, 05 March 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[Mechteric]

Ralatar, on 05 March 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Ok, let me break it down for you sir.

Raven (ECM) with 4 module slots:

Buying with MC (if PGI stays with the proposed consumable model) a pilot will be able to load 4 top lv consumables onto his fast ECM'ed POS raven.

Buying with CBills a pilot will be able to only load consumables that equal 2 top lv MC consumables onto his fast ECM'ed POS raven.

We currently see a number of 4 man drops running raven packs at times. That would quickly become a norm....see if it doesn't. At that time you will see only mech's that have 4 module slots being run because if you don't you aren't competitive. So yes BIG P2W model ensues.

Please stick to the subject of coolant flush. And wait a minute, why in the world does a Raven need coolant flush?

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 05 March 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[Yokaiko]

CapperDeluxe, on 05 March 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

Ok but that means with CBIlls you can save your butt up to TWICE from overheat, MC only once. Sure the MC one is more, but in the world of high heat alphas that's not gonna help (e.g. a 6PPC Stalker). He'll get one more alpha out and thats it. Done.

Anyway this speculation is pretty sad anyway, I really just want to see how effective it is in game. If my hypothesis is correct, it won't do a whole lot. It may save your bacon in a rare situation, but will it really change the tide of warfare? I think not.


EDIT: this discussion is only about coolant flushes, seeing as how we don't have details on the mechanics of airstrike and arty its pointless to bring it up here.

3>2

Hypothetically.

Minus whatever pilot modules you actually need, so missile boats are really left out, a stalker has at most three mod slots, and two are required for adv sensor range and adv target decay.

[Ralatar]

CapperDeluxe, on 05 March 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Please stick to the subject of coolant flush. And wait a minute, why in the world does a Raven need coolant flush?

I was talking about Coolant Flush and addressing the P2W if the other consumables follow suit sir.

[smokefield]

I dont know why you argue around the IS IT or IS IT NOT P2W ?

Real money for the slightest advantage or feature that a non paying player cannot achieve = > P2W.

[Yokaiko]

Ralatar, on 05 March 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

I was talking about Coolant Flush and addressing the P2W if the other consumables follow suit sir.

http://mwomercs.com/...10-consumables/

and they do, coolant flush was the example because that is the one we all called BS on.

[Chavette]

Yokaiko, on 05 March 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Ok now take 8 guys (soon 12) that ALL have MC airstrike and artillery and coolant flushes. Remember 4 slot mechs are a rarity and 3 slots is most common. These guys can't hit you with every consumable in the game....where the free player (or just out of MC) is restricted to at most TWO of those effects.

It LOGICALLY buying a paid for advantage.

Thanks for explaining him.
For a programmer, hes not too bright (also programmer here).

[Budor]

Time to work will be back later with more money...

[CygnusX7]

I can understand some feeling like this is the tip of the P2W iceberg.. We have no idea if it is and this is such a small case of P2W that it shouldn't even be called that.

CB for the 2 coolant modules and get 1 15% flush and a second 20% flush.
You MC for a 35% flush and get 1 flush but only using up 1 module.

..and these are purchased per match.

If this was real life and you had a 1 on 1 arena match and you needed the extra module you'd probably nut up the MC for the T3 flush. In some cases it might be better to have 2 flushes available. Nice options if you ask me.

Edited by CygnusX7, 05 March 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Sol Fin]

Well, reading a post regarding number of slots I've came to an idea.

PGI says that we're getting only same result but for two slots. It's true. But it says nothing about bigger picture of all slots on a mech.

Example. Mech has 3 slots. So CBill only guy can get Coolant Tier I + Coolant Tier II + Air strikes Tier II. At the same time MC player can get Coolant Tier III + Air Strikes Tier III + Arty Tier III since noone said that different Tier III consumabled can't be on the same mech. So if we look on a whole mech instead of just 1-2 module - difference is becoming huge. Basically MC player gets Tier III consumable + Tier I consumable advantage. And THIS advantage doesn't look anything close to "the same effect".

* Air strikes and Arty Strikes tiers are taken just as an example. Put any other consumable tiered item in here.

[Tarman]

CapperDeluxe, on 05 March 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Please stick to the subject of coolant flush. And wait a minute, why in the world does a Raven need coolant flush?

The subject of coolant flush isn't the most important part, it's the model of delivery they're presenting for tiered modules, where paid modules are inherently better pieces of kit than a lower tier, and only for real money. You can replicate their effects at the cost of taking less of any other module or you can use a lesser effect to save your slot.

Under this delivery model, a paying player can run top-level modules in combinations that a free player literally cannot use. Now remember that this is a team game and send your Free Mercs against Wallet Inc. You will be outgunned in kit performance solely due to money, given teams of equal skill and the the same exact mechs.

[Mechteric]

Chavette, on 05 March 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

Thanks for explaining him.
For a programmer, hes not too bright (also programmer here).

Sorry but there was no valid point made in that referenced point in how it regards coolant flush as P2W. Arty and Airstrikes are a different beast that can be discussed when we know more about it.

I will give you this to prove my sanity (as if I really needed to), if any mech can mount and use Arty and Airstrikes then the P2W barrier could be breached. However if I had to guess, there will be some limits on those items such as requiring the Command Console (1 slot 3.0 tons), and maybe even require that you be the commander on the team to use them. So if only one person gets to use it I would decree that not P2W in the example provided of an entire team loading these things on. Alas time will tell on that subject.

[WolvesX]

Any advantage you gain with MC is just bad.

I rather buy Mechhats....

[Nicholas Carlyle]

My issue isn't necessarily with the actual modules introduced. I don't think coolant flush is a big deal.

My issue is with the standard it sets.

Yeah, these may not be a big deal, but down the line they will eventually release a consumable that is worthwhile, and the MC version will be better, just like it is now.

And it's going to destroy the game.

[MustrumRidcully]

Aidan McRae, on 05 March 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Sigh. Read more, post less. Cbills - 2 module slots for two heat reductions, one of 15, one of 20 for a total of 35%. MC - 1 module slot for one heat reduction of 35%.

2 module slots versus 1 module slot. *That's* the issue. Same net benefit. You can bang-bang both of your Cbill heat reductions in a row, but you just wasted an extra slot that a paying player didn't have to.

I think it might work better if the C-Bill module would overall grant more options. Say, one flush at 20 %, another at 30 %, for a total of 50 %, while the MC module would grant 35 %. So you can get more if you pay with C-Bills.
But in the end - if you buy MC for a Premium, you also have more C-Bills. You always get an advantage for buying MC.

[Rizzwind]

Garth Erlam, on 06 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

It's actually because it invalidates heat as an issue in a team vs. team environment.

I know everyone likes to point the finger at PGI for dumb ideas that make it into the game. But there no longer calling the shots. Big money IGP has stepped in and just started to say do it. If PGI wants to have a game at all they have to. Make sure the blame is going the right way. IGP is the one f****** this game up for money buy adding in stuff PGI said it would not do.