186 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

I'm seriously shocked this Dec 5th thread against ECM has survived the mod locks this long. All the rest from Dec 4th and 11th weeks were axed(many of which were actually better than this one), but mine is still standing proud!

Edited by Bluten, 23 December 2012 - 09:01 PM.

[TELEFORCE]

I'd like to see BAP give us 360-degree detection, although the rear view should be reduced range, to reflect the lack of a built-in sensor suite on the 'mech (this, perhaps, could be fixed with the module that allows 360-degree detection).

In addition, I'd like to see an even greater sensor range boost, perhaps up from 15% to 25%.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

None of that would matter Tele if the thing is still totally useless vs an ECM. Whole point of a BAP buff suggestion is for them to make it counter the ECM as it logically should(even if partially). Then it would immediately become useful again.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

*waves magic wand*

[Evil Ash]

Something does need to be done about ECM, due to its availability on only certain variants of mechs, it's really a pain to not have one, I end up using my ECM almost exclusively to block all the other ones that are spammed on SSRM scouts (hypocritically of course, my main mech is an ECM ssrm mech). There is of course several things that could be implemented/reimplemented, such as the following:
1. Tripping for lights, as much as I hate being tripped, this would give Assaults a much better chance at fighting an ECM toting Raven, who they can usually never find as it's running right around the mech's personal bits.
2. Upgrade BAP *refer to the thread we are on*
3. Change ECM from total blocking to delayed blocking
4. Differentiate ECMs, make disrupt & counter seperate
5. Make ECM modules (as much as I hate this one, it would severely limit the amount of ECMs in use, as well as making the ECM users feel like they REALLY deserve to use it... or end up being limited to pay-to-win losers, who never actually end up amounting to anything )
6.Remove ECM (lol no.)
7. Limit ECM to non-missile builds
8. Decrease ECM's range (the mech ends up sticking its nose into the side of your mech, so that's not changing much)
9. Make ECM or SSRM weigh more (not canon but would limit the amount of SSRM's a boat can carry)


**Also I miss the rearview cameras

Edited by Evil Ash, 09 January 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[DocBach]

Evil Ash, on 09 January 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

**Also I miss the rearview cameras

A module that gives you like a picture in picture of your rear would be awesome.

[EitherWay]

DocBach, on 09 January 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

A module that gives you like a picture in picture of your rear would be awesome.

Maybe they would put it somewhere in the cockpit to make the cockpit more useful.

Edited by EitherWay, 09 January 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[Tolkien]

It's amusing that BAP is 1.5 tons, same as ECM and yet one totally controls the other... the information warfare looks very familiar almost as though.....

Three TAGs for the 8man-kings under the sky,

Seven NARCS for the PUG-lords in their halls of derp,

Nine wasted threads of constructive community feedback for Mortal Devs doomed to die,

One ECM for the Dark Lord Paul on his dark throne

In the Land of the periphery where the Shadows lie.

One ECM to rule them all, One ECM to find them,

One ECM to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

In the periphery where the Shadows lie.

Edited by Tolkien, 14 January 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Personally, I would like to see BAP's abilities expanded to mirror those described by the advanced rules in Tactical Operations. Namely:

• able to detect hidden units (perhaps implementable as "can maintain targeting through buildings, forests, and weather, but not through hills"; TacOps, pg. 99 and Total Warfare, pgs. 259-260)
  
• targeting bonus (perhaps implementable as a slight (~5%?) boost to missile lock speed and/or a slight (~5%?) boost to convergence; TacOps, pgs. 99)
  
• greater information gathering (perhaps implementable as seeing a HTAL armor display, component health, and remaining ammo counts of a target (rather than the "paper doll" and a simple weapon listing); TacOps, pgs. 99 and 219)
  
• can detect minefields (if Thunder LRMs and/or Thunder Arrow Missiles are ever implemented; TacOps, pgs. 99 and 210)
  
• can see ghost targets (generated by ECM Suites and Command Consoles, if the ability is implemented) for what they are (TacOps, pgs. 99 and 101-102)
  
• can monitor and make use of remote sensors (TacOps, pg. 224)

Your thoughts?

[MajTnkr]

I would just like the BAP to ID mechs w/in 150-200 m on the radar when they are not covered by ECM! ECM is what it is - ECM...and yes that SHOULD make those mechs covered, much harder to consistently spot/lock onto. But the BAP IS SUPPOSED TO BE ACTIVE!!! So why the inconsistent radar returns, especially at very close ranges??

[DocBach]

Strum Wealh, on 14 January 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

Personally, I would like to see BAP's abilities expanded to mirror those described by the advanced rules in Tactical Operations. Namely:

• able to detect hidden units (perhaps implementable as "can maintain targeting through buildings, forests, and weather, but not through hills"; TacOps, pg. 99 and Total Warfare, pgs. 259-260)
  
• targeting bonus (perhaps implementable as a slight (~5%?) boost to missile lock speed and/or a slight (~5%?) boost to convergence; TacOps, pgs. 99)
  
• greater information gathering (perhaps implementable as seeing a HTAL armor display, component health, and remaining ammo counts of a target (rather than the "paper doll" and a simple weapon listing); TacOps, pgs. 99 and 219)
  
• can detect minefields (if Thunder LRMs and/or Thunder Arrow Missiles are ever implemented; TacOps, pgs. 99 and 210)
  
• can see ghost targets (generated by ECM Suites and Command Consoles, if the ability is implemented) for what they are (TacOps, pgs. 99 and 101-102)
  
• can monitor and make use of remote sensors (TacOps, pg. 224)

Your thoughts?

I like this, but soon you'll have an army of people foaming at the mouth saying it can't be done and to keep dice out of their game for referencing board game rules.

[LaserAngel]

Strum Wealh, on 14 January 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

Personally, I would like to see BAP's abilities expanded to mirror those described by the advanced rules in Tactical Operations. Namely:

• able to detect hidden units (perhaps implementable as "can maintain targeting through buildings, forests, and weather, but not through hills"; TacOps, pg. 99 and Total Warfare, pgs. 259-260)
  
• targeting bonus (perhaps implementable as a slight (~5%?) boost to missile lock speed and/or a slight (~5%?) boost to convergence; TacOps, pgs. 99)
  
• greater information gathering (perhaps implementable as seeing a HTAL armor display, component health, and remaining ammo counts of a target (rather than the "paper doll" and a simple weapon listing); TacOps, pgs. 99 and 219)
  
• can detect minefields (if Thunder LRMs and/or Thunder Arrow Missiles are ever implemented; TacOps, pgs. 99 and 210)
  
• can see ghost targets (generated by ECM Suites and Command Consoles, if the ability is implemented) for what they are (TacOps, pgs. 99 and 101-102)
  
• can monitor and make use of remote sensors (TacOps, pg. 224)

Your thoughts?

I can see a lot of future goodies coming out of the BAP and the Command Console.

[MegaBusta]

Someone else said this too; if you want to keep ECM as a counter to BAP, BAP should at least provide active radar throughout a certain percentage of its total range; maybe it can't provide details like chassis/damage/loadout, but you should at least have a target on the radar. It should give universal 360 detection of targets within this range, unless they are under the cover of ECM.

ECM should prevent missile lock (or at least LRM lock give players a special "No Lock" indicator when effected), and prevent detailed information from being displayed on anyone within its area-of-effect; no weapons loadout, no damage skeleton, hell, don't even tell them what mech it is. It also blocks BAP's active radar from working, so you should need line of sight to locate the target.

But it shouldn't work like a total radar stealth field like it does now.

Edited by MegaBusta, 03 February 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I imagine the BAP system will recieve buffs through modules, or maybe even tweaks.. although the bonus it provides especially coupled with the sensor modules can be very effective at gathering information.. which may or may not help you

[DocBach]

M4NTiC0R3X, on 03 February 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I imagine the BAP system will recieve buffs through modules, or maybe even tweaks.. although the bonus it provides especially coupled with the sensor modules can be very effective at gathering information.. which may or may not help you

Beagle's additional capabilities like 360 targeting were given to modules.

[Kiiyor]

Bluten, on 05 December 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

If you're going to leave the ECM like this(stupidly brokenly OP), make the BAP counter its effects for the single guy using it. Make it return radar function and missile locking at some middle set distance range vs the ECM(ie 500 meters?)

SOMETHING. ANYTHING. Why does device A get the shaft and have to beg for change on the street corner while device B has everything imaginable handed to it on a silver plate? These are suppose to logically counter each other!

Maybe it could halve the effectiveness of ECM (range wise). It would make streaks more viable against ECM wielding lights, and could help prevent the mass targeting lockdown some enemy ECM pilots can blanket your team with, without completely neutering ECM.

It could also make light mech movement easier to predict, as you would know that a light has to be within 90m of another mech to disrupt it.

Does BAP have a range? Maybe BAP could allow you (and only you) to lock ECM units at extreme range, with lock times increasing as range decreases? ECM would still remain effective, and pilots would have to get closer to use it.

[DocBach]

BAP should have a 120 meter effective range in which it has 360 targeting, can locate shut down targets, targets out of LOS, and enhanced ability at getting target data.

[Khobai]

Quote

BAP does serve a purpose

Maybe. But the point is if you're in a D-DC and only have 1.5 tons and you have to choose one piece of equipment are you going to choose 1) AMS, 2) BAP, or 3) ECM?

As long as ECM is the only answer to that question then its not a balanced piece of equipment.

[Slepnir]

The BAP is an enhanced sensor probe that lets you find hidden things lke powered down mechs, battle armor, tanks in the trees etc...it also makes things easier to hit inside the probe bubble(like improved lock on time in MWO's case)

The problem i think isn't so much the BAP but it is the way they made ECM work in MWO that isnt even close to the way it works in TT for disrupt

the way it is supposed to work-

ECM DOES NOT-
.prevent lock ons from guided or semi guided weapons. it just prevents the artemis IV/NARC bonus

what it does do is-
.jam BAPs within the ECM bubble.
.jam C3 network connections
.counter jamming- ECM can counter other ECMs in the bubble-the more you have counter the lesser enemies so that works like it should
.ghost imaging-makes it harder to pick out a target by causing mulitple ghost targets. multiple ECMs doing this compound just like counter ECM...in MWO making lock on times longer would make sense...or making mulitple fake enemy counters/targets appear.

[Mike Townsend]

It'd be awesome if NARC provided something like a minute's worth of visibility/target/missile lock to any mech hit by it regardless of whether it was in ECM or not. Like BAP, NARC is already pretty underpowered, and what marginal utility it has is completely negated by ECM. If you could NARC an ECM'd Raven and have it light it up for your LRM boats for a minute or so, it'd help.

Edit: And, yeah, if BAP did nothing other than cause ECM-jammed areas to light up on the map, including on allied maps out to a range of, say, 500m, that would make it worth experimenting with.

Edited by Mike Townsend, 03 February 2013 - 06:17 PM.