186 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Codejack, on 20 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Well, ECM isn't supposed to do like 83% of the stuff it does in this game; we can't insist on TT rules for one thing when we threw them out the window for something else.

*Berry voice*
What? What is this? Logic? Hope it's not... Chris' logic.

[Pygar]

I would like to see a better counter to ECM, but would rather see it come from TAG or NARC because BAP is a passive module that has too little (or no) restrictions as to what mechs can have it....and also BAP helps the mech that carries it, but doesn't particularly help the rest of that mechs team.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Pygar, on 20 December 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

I would like to see a better counter to ECM, but would rather see it come from TAG or NARC because BAP is a passive module that has too little (or no) restrictions as to what mechs can have it....and also BAP helps the mech that carries it, but doesn't particularly help the rest of that mechs team.

Ya because the ECM isn't passive or automatic at all.

[Pygar]

Bluten, on 20 December 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Ya because the ECM isn't passive or automatic at all.

ECM requires that players go out of their way to stay inside the bubble or they aren't protected, and to run ECCM against another ECM mech you have to toggle it.

Yeah, you don't like teamwork and were really hoping that one module that you already have on many (if not all) of your missile mechs would allow you to go back to how it was before ECM...we get it bro, we get it.

Edited by Pygar, 20 December 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

make it not a worthless hunk of metal

Doesnt matter if its not TT. TT doesnt matter here when its inconvenient anyways

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 20 December 2012 - 05:43 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Pygar, on 20 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

ECM requires that players go out of their way to stay inside the bubble or they aren't protected, and to run ECCM against another ECM mech you have to toggle it.

Yeah, you don't like teamwork and were really hoping that one module that you already have on many (if not all) of your missile mechs would allow you to go back to how it was before ECM...we get it bro, we get it.

ECM requires NOTHING from a guy using it or from an ally that just stands near him. So why can't a similar device combat this?

Also, I actually didn't have the BAP because even beforehand, it wasn't that great. Now it's just garbage entirely when it should have shined as an ECM counter. But Piranha threw this obvious and logical concept right out the window.

Finally, regarding whether we go back or not... well, that would be great, because this game was a lot better before ECM than it is now. But I know it's here to stay, and wouldn't mind that, IF it wasn't as stupidly OP as it currently is. How you can defend this device while others are rendered USELESS by its mere presence is totally beyond me.

[Pygar]

Bluten, on 20 December 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

How you can defend this device while others are rendered USELESS by its mere presence is totally beyond me.

Because I don't use LRMs or Streaks on most of my mechs, and most of the other weapon types are unaffected by ECM. In matches, I pay attention to my teams ECM so I don't suddenly look up and see that I am being barraged by 4 LRM mechs that I can't even see, let alone shoot back at...and the only things about the enemy ECM that make a battle hard for me is ninja scouts and occasionally it screws with my ability to follow my FC's called target. (which honestly has as much to do with using the "R" key to cycle through random nearby targets as it does ECM)

Bluten, on 20 December 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

ECM requires NOTHING from a guy using it or from an ally that just stands near him. So why can't a similar device combat this?

^^This is a grossly inaccurate statement, if an ECM mech doesn't commit to forming a turtle with the rest of the team, then the rest of the team gets no benefit from ECM....likewise, if I suddenly start ignoring my team and just wander off my own direction for a couple seconds, ECM won't help me anymore either. ECM mech pilots must also know how and when to use counter mode to be able to get themselves and their team mates locks for Streaks and LRMs.

Dude, seriously....stop qq'ing about ECM and liking your own posts here in the forums, turn on the game, actually fly some mechs besides a catapult (Or other Streak/LRM mech) and maybe try playing on some actual teams with voice comms- otherwise, your arguments on the subject are rather transparent... all you want is easy mode for missile mechs back, and not honest gameplay balance.

Edited by Pygar, 20 December 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Pygar, on 20 December 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

Because I don't use LRMs or Streaks on most of my mechs, all other weapon types are unaffected.

ah I see it doesnt affect YOU so its fine

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 20 December 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

ah I see it doesnt affect YOU so its fine

Sometimes +1 just isn't enough...

[Codejack]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 20 December 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

ah I see it doesnt affect YOU so its fine

Bluten, on 20 December 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

Sometimes +1 just isn't enough...

or +2...

[Jetfire]

BAP does serve a purpose and I run it on several builds currently even though they do not have ECM. If BAP straight up countered ECM, everyone would just run BAP and no one would bother with ECM and E-warfare would be dead on the table. I know E-warfare is challenging to deal with, but it is a serious part of the game and giving it a straight out 100% counter that is not ECM of your own makes it irrelevant.

If you seriously want to make ECM a trade off there are 4 big options that seem pretty likely to be under consideration.

1. ECCM
2. TAG
3. PPC EMP effect
4. Pilot skill of unknown effect (lock on with bap at reduced efficiency maybe?)

The last one I think makes sense but I have not seen PGI make a move on yet or an indication it is under consideration would be a slow heat ramp. It is likely a power hungry system so it should need cooling and over time it would make sense that your base heat level would begin to creep, say up to 50% of your heat level by the 6 minute mark. Of course this would necessitate a third toggle option of OFF so you could let your mech cool off once in a while.

[Pygar]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 20 December 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

ah I see it doesnt affect YOU so its fine

Yeah, I also have to manually aim my weapons, so my mech takes more skill to fly in the first place.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Pygar, on 20 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Yeah, I also have to manually aim my weapons, so my mech takes more skill to fly in the first place.

Your lasers didn't a lock timer, didn't slam into terrain, didn't target then hit the ground, or get shot down by an AMS. People acting like they're more skilled because they didn't do it, is moot and arrogant. Fact is if your favorite role got gutted, you'd be just as unhappy, not defend the butchery.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Jetfire, on 20 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

BAP does serve a purpose and I run it on several builds currently even though they do not have ECM. If BAP straight up countered ECM, everyone would just run BAP and no one would bother with ECM and E-warfare would be dead on the table. I know E-warfare is challenging to deal with, but it is a serious part of the game and giving it a straight out 100% counter that is not ECM of your own makes it irrelevant.

Funny how you talk to be against one thing completely countering another while at the same time defending the ECM, a device that does exactly that vs the BAP. I should add that full counters, being from either the ECM or BAP, was never anything I suggested or supported. I never said make the BAP render an ECM pointless, I said make it do SOMETHING, as opposed to NOTHING.

[Codejack]

Pygar, on 20 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Yeah, I also have to manually aim my weapons, so my mech takes more skill to fly in the first place.

Let's see, you have to wait for the crosshairs to be on the enemy and press the button.

We have to hold the reticule inside the target box for ~2.5 seconds just to be able to fire a weapon that does the same damage as a medium laser, but with a longer recycle time.

I'm not sure that "skill" means what you think it means.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Codejack, on 20 December 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

I'm not sure that "skill" means what you think it means.

No no no no no. You should have said this:

Skill? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Edited by Bluten, 20 December 2012 - 06:55 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bluten, on 20 December 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

No no no no no. You should have said this:

Skill? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

no no no no

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Someone got it!

Hello. My name is Catapult C1F. You keeled my LRMs. Prepare to die.

Edited by Bluten, 20 December 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

ya but to do it right you need the picture

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 20 December 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

ya but to do it right you need the picture

I'll keep that in mind for the future.