60 replies to this topic

[White Bear 84]

RumRunner151, on 05 December 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

Except that you cant boat them on any mech w ECM

You can put streaks on the Raven 3L

[Fate 6]

yashmack, on 05 December 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

yeah, I dont see a problem with ECM so far
I disagree with this thread lol

Did you use a heavy or assault brawler before the patch? Because that's the only reason to enjoy ECM.

[geek]

Fate 6, on 05 December 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

Did you use a heavy or assault brawler before the patch? Because that's the only reason to enjoy ECM.

I was beginning to think this ECM debate was more of a brawler vs. non-brawler playstyle debate too.

[yashmack]

I own a medium, a heavy and an assault
I will be purchasing another awesome for a missle boat but Im going to have close range weapons as well
ECM hasnt made it impossible to use lock on weapons, its just made it more challenging
most of the friends I run with when im in a group rock LRMs and havent had much of a complaint about ECM, they know how to play though I guess

Edited by yashmack, 05 December 2012 - 11:52 PM.

[Sarevos]

Fate 6, on 05 December 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Fixed that for you, no need to thank me.

The only option besides lock based missiles is to use SRMs which are shotguns. Shotguns mean you HAVE to brawl if you want to use your missile hardpoints. This means that the game is nothing but brawling. I like getting in close for a fight but 1) I like to use indirect fire support for variety and 2) I don,t always want to be brawling at 90m, sometimes I like being at 200-300m.

This is why we don't see medium mechs very much right now. SSRM's allowed mechs to deal damage with missiles from 250m, it isn't just about the lock on. If SRMs could do damage consistently from that range I would be ok with it.

hey guess what? it only does that within 180 meters if youre at range and someone else is close enough to ping him you can still lock on to him unless they sit in a group tight enough to all be in the umbrella then you could dumbfire the lrms and be sure to hit someone lol thats a walking target. Also for streaks you can still fire on people under the umbrella if the ecm'er is 180m away it just takes longer to fire

[Uncle Istvan]

FYI skilled streak user still can lock and shoot ECM covered mech, by keeping certain range. Too bad skilled streakcat pilot is mythical entity. At best they know how to pulse jump jets when in danger.

[Sarevos]

Uncle Istvan, on 05 December 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

FYI skilled streak user still can lock and shoot ECM covered mech, by keeping certain range. Too bad skilled streakcat pilot is mythical entity. At best they know how to pulse jump jets when in danger.

that

[MouseNo4]

I only use streaks on my Raven 3L because I have to deal with 250+ ping. Hitting anything with SRMs was pretty hard if not impossible save for when the enemy filled up my cockpit window.

And I have been using dual Streaks for a long time before this patch.

[Fate 6]

yashmack, on 05 December 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

I own a medium, a heavy and an assault
I will be purchasing another awesome for a missle boat but Im going to have close range weapons as well
ECM hasnt made it impossible to use lock on weapons, its just made it more challenging
most of the friends I run with when im in a group rock LRMs and havent had much of a complaint about ECM, they know how to play though I guess

The only way to play through it is to:
1) Pray the enemy doesn't have ECM
2) If the enemy has ECM pray that:
a) Your team has a light who can TAG an enemy without dying
The enemy splits up and wanders away from the ECM

There is nothing that you personally can do to play around it unless you want to run up the the enemy in your Awesome and TAG them. In that case, why bother using LRMs? Just use large lasers which will give you the same effective result.

[Thomas Covenant]

Kobold, on 05 December 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

Streaks were broken powerful pre-ECM. They remain broken powerful if their team has more ECM than the other team (or neither team has it).

Streaks still aren't fixed. ECM isn't even a band aid on the problem, it is just a pain killer. When you don't have it, the pain is still there.

Really good analogy. Even if I might not have quite as large a problem with streaks (But I do to some degree).

[Sarevos]

Fate 6, on 05 December 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

The only way to play through it is to:
1) Pray the enemy doesn't have ECM
2) If the enemy has ECM pray that:
a) Your team has a light who can TAG an enemy without dying
The enemy splits up and wanders away from the ECM

There is nothing that you personally can do to play around it unless you want to run up the the enemy in your Awesome and TAG them. In that case, why bother using LRMs? Just use large lasers which will give you the same effective result.

which means they have to stay clustered in a nice shootable group or be rained on its like a bait ball and the good team would ideally be the sharks

[Fate 6]

Uncle Istvan, on 05 December 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

FYI skilled streak user still can lock and shoot ECM covered mech, by keeping certain range. Too bad skilled streakcat pilot is mythical entity. At best they know how to pulse jump jets when in danger.

My ***. No streak user can stay in that 20m area if the enemy is moving.

MouseNo4, on 05 December 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

I only use streaks on my Raven 3L because I have to deal with 250+ ping. Hitting anything with SRMs was pretty hard if not impossible save for when the enemy filled up my cockpit window.

And I have been using dual Streaks for a long time before this patch.

And others don't have high ping/framerate loss? Others didn't use streaks before the patch?

Your reason for using streaks is exactly what people complain about - it is viewed as a weapon that compensates for lack of skill (in your case, your "lack of skill" is between the keyboard and the computer not between you and the keyboard). I think streaks aren't a noob weapon at all, but it is still a hypocritical stance to think ECM is balanced because it counters streaks and then load up all your missile hardpoints with streaks.

Sarevos, on 05 December 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

which means they have to stay clustered in a nice shootable group or be rained on its like a bait ball and the good team would ideally be the sharks

You are assuming that group is in the open. The point of LRMs is to provide some form or indirect fire. Direct fire weapons do the same thing before and after the addition of ECM. I don't care about making direct fire better because I don't feel like using ballistics all day. When I do want to use them, it's usually for something like brawling, not something "easy" (as you would have us think) like sitting back and being direct fire support. Direct fire support takes just as much skill (but a different skillset) as indirect fire support.

Edited by Fate 6, 06 December 2012 - 12:06 AM.

[yashmack]

Fate 6, on 05 December 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

The only way to play through it is to:
1) Pray the enemy doesn't have ECM
2) If the enemy has ECM pray that:
a) Your team has a light who can TAG an enemy without dying
The enemy splits up and wanders away from the ECM

There is nothing that you personally can do to play around it unless you want to run up the the enemy in your Awesome and TAG them. In that case, why bother using LRMs? Just use large lasers which will give you the same effective result.

After reading this I understand the dilemma a bit better and can concede that there is added difficulty with the ECM being added, however I still dont feel that the ECM is overpowered
You need a good strategy and to work with your team (oh no!!) instead of just everyone running off wherever they want to go
just because a PUG cant handle the other team when there is ECM doesnt mean that will happen every time
if its that big of an issue go join a teamspeak server and.or work with your PUG members

[Fate 6]

yashmack, on 06 December 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

After reading this I understand the dilemma a bit better and can concede that there is added difficulty with the ECM being added, however I still dont feel that the ECM is overpowered
You need a good strategy and to work with your team (oh no!!) instead of just everyone running off wherever they want to go
just because a PUG cant handle the other team when there is ECM doesnt mean that will happen every time
if its that big of an issue go join a teamspeak server and.or work with your PUG members

I'm all for teamwork, but you can't control what loadout your team has. Previously, you had to work with spotters, and that was fine because anyone could spot, they didn't have to have a specific loadout to do it. Now you have to hope a teammate has the right loadout.

Of course it won't happen in every game, but there is a high likelihood of it happening and in those instances you are dead weight because your weapons can't function.

Saying I should go join a teamspeak server is a poor argument for two reasons:
1) The game is not balanced around teamspeak server usage
2) There exists in the game a launch button, which when pressed will allow you to enter a game alone. I am not forced to enter a game with people. If PGI desired me to only go into the game with a party they would not allow a solo queue.

Before you say "well then it is your loss for not finding teammates" I will say that where once it was to my disadvantage now it is mandatory if I want to use LRMs or SSRMs in my missile hardpoints.

Edited by Fate 6, 06 December 2012 - 12:16 AM.

[MouseNo4]

Fate 6, on 06 December 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

My ***. No streak user can stay in that 20m area if the enemy is moving.


And others don't have high ping/framerate loss? Others didn't use streaks before the patch?

Your reason for using streaks is exactly what people complain about - it is viewed as a weapon that compensates for lack of skill (in your case, your "lack of skill" is between the keyboard and the computer not between you and the keyboard). I think streaks aren't a noob weapon at all, but it is still a hypocritical stance to think ECM is balanced because it counters streaks and then load up all your missile hardpoints with streaks.


You are assuming that group is in the open. The point of LRMs is to provide some form or indirect fire. Direct fire weapons do the same thing before and after the addition of ECM. I don't care about making direct fire better because I don't feel like using ballistics all day. When I do want to use them, it's usually for something like brawling, not something "easy" (as you would have us think) like sitting back and being direct fire support. Direct fire support takes just as much skill (but a different skillset) as indirect fire support.

Sorry but I cannot help my ping. I WISH I could use SRMs as only firing 4 max missiles at once is not what I had in mind of firepower. If they released servers where I could get American ping I would switch to SRMs on the spot without question. And I would gladly give up my "OP" lock on ability for the option to launch 6-12 missiles on cue EXACTLY when I want to and not after waiting for a lock.

[yashmack]

I think a real solution would be to implement voice chat in a useful way in the game


most of or all of the complaints about the ECM can be negated with good team work, imho anyway

I wouldnt be averse to seeing changes to the ECM but as it is I dont see it as over powered as most are saying it is

[Blark]

Kobold, on 05 December 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

Streaks were broken powerful pre-ECM. They remain broken powerful if their team has more ECM than the other team (or neither team has it).

Streaks still aren't fixed. ECM isn't even a band aid on the problem, it is just a pain killer. When you don't have it, the pain is still there.

Someone who knows what he is talking about.
Streaks+more ecm=autowin against light/medium

The problem is that the actual streak nerf has not been rolled out for some mysteries reason (the one that lets streaks spread out to legs/arms); at least that would make things a little better because right now the only difference ECM brought regarding streaks is that only the team with more ECM gets to use them.

You want an easy win right now (easier then ever before to be honest):

- Take 2-4 Raven3L (Xl295, 2ssrm/2ton ammo, 2sl, 1mpl, ECM).
- You know the other team will have at least 2-4 lights as well

If you got more light ECM/streak carriers: Congratulations! You win!
If they got more: It probably wont look good for you.
If they got the same amount: Counter ECM, streak down one ECM carrier as fast as possible, If you succeed, you win.

Uncle Istvan, on 05 December 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

FYI skilled streak user still can lock and shoot ECM covered mech, by keeping certain range. [..]

Good luck tagging my 146.8kph Raven

[Fate 6]

yashmack, on 06 December 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

I think a real solution would be to implement voice chat in a useful way in the game


most of or all of the complaints about the ECM can be negated with good team work, imho anyway

I wouldnt be averse to seeing changes to the ECM but as it is I dont see it as over powered as most are saying it is

Adding in-game voice chat doesn't magically equip your scouts with TAG.

And if by chance your scouts have TAG it still doesn't mean:
1) Those scouts can hold a TAG lock for the full duration of a missile arc
2) The enemy won't see them and force them to run or die

EDIT: And even if your team magically has a scout that can give you a TAG lock, you still are back to pre-ECM LRMs that can be countered by walking behind a wall when the big Missile Incoming warning starts flashing.

Edited by Fate 6, 06 December 2012 - 12:25 AM.

[Felix]

Sarevos, on 05 December 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

do you know the downside of specializing? you can be hard countered...

Please point me to the modules that weigh 1.5 tons and take 2 crits that completely counter autocannons and energy weapons respectively that requires one button tap from the player and forgetting about it.

Or is the magical anti missile shield a special little snowflake for retards who dont know how to deal with locks any other way?

[Voidsinger]

MouseNo4, on 06 December 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

Sorry but I cannot help my ping. I WISH I could use SRMs as only firing 4 max missiles at once is not what I had in mind of firepower. If they released servers where I could get American ping I would switch to SRMs on the spot without question. And I would gladly give up my "OP" lock on ability for the option to launch 6-12 missiles on cue EXACTLY when I want to and not after waiting for a lock.

Actually, I have switched from Streaks to SRMs. 3 SRM6s on a Centurion is a devastating build for in your face use. That's the huge compromise with SRMs. They are an in your face weapon. Plan on trying 2* SRM4 instead of 3 Streaks on a Commando to see how it goes. There's always a cost, in this case weight, heat and ammunition use. The very reasons Streaks were developed (They were never meant as an auto-lock primary weapons system, and dice rolls meant they never could be until weapons groups).

As for Ravens, nerf the hell out of them for all I care. After months of whining about how the Raven was specially built for EW, and it was useless without it, come implementation of EW, the only thing that remains of the original Raven Scouting/Sensors suite is the GECM. Total hypocrisy.

Streaks have a great many other changes coming. Loss of rock and shock, losing the smoke, and targeting different hit locations. Hopefully, stacking penalties after 2 launchers too. That is all great.

Streaks were never meant to be harmed by ECM until Angel. Even then, they just auto-switched to normal SRMs. All the problems ECM is causing are caused by PGI's enhancements, not the concepts or capabilities of tabletop varieties.

Edited by Voidsinger, 06 December 2012 - 02:10 AM.