164 replies to this topic

[DocBach]

thehwdge, on 30 January 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Now you know how annoying lrm spamcats are
(you just get spammed by spammed by lrm/ecm and you cant do anything but run or hide)

same can be said about how annoying it is to be spammed by never ending salvos of Ultra AC/5 or AC/2 rounds, or nine small pulse lasers from a Hunchback, or whatever. Getting shot at sucks, but introducing a game breaking piece of equipment to try to fix it just breaks a bunch more stuff.

[Geadron Kane]

The LRM rain was just as out of hand for a while but you would think that a walking robot with a computer like that would be able to maintain a lock when there is a direct line of sight. Maybe the ECM should work like AMS when there is a direct line of sight within a certain range. If the mech was able to break line of sight with a building, hill, certain depth of trees or if a light mech runs behind an assault mech it should break lock. If the mech was running hot however, this too should degrade its effectiveness with a direct line of sight.

Direct fire weapon convergence seems a bit too accurate. Weapons on opposite arms should not converge the same way 2 weapons mounted in the same torso should. A mech with 10 lasers should not be able to dump all that damage onto one torso as if it had a targeting computer mounted. SRM's should come out in a stream but seem to be as accurate as a LB-10X even at their medium ranges.

Nevertheless it is going to be difficult to balance game mechanics from dice rolls to a near FPS. Maybe there could be different ammo types for the LRM's/SRM's (Heat, Area Explosive) or something like that? It might even be interesting to have mine laying weapons.

[Atlas3060]

ECMs don't really affect my tastes too much, if anything it helps me out.
When I see "Low Signal" my brawling Hunchies know to go look around for mechs that don't resemble my teammates and go blow them up.

To paraphrase Heavy in TF2: "ECM may outsmart missile, maybe, but it can't outsmart bullet."

[Joseph Mallan]

Azuanite, on 06 December 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

WTF is this shet, why is it the only equipment that can render entire mechs useless?... do they want everyone to play nothing but ECM mechs?.. cuz right now i find it impossible to play my catapult with all LRMs or streak SRMS when i can never get a chance to lock onto my enemies.

it turns off your power? kills your HuD? No? Then what renders mechs useless is the pilot who brought a one trick pony. OR bought the one Catapult with no back up weapons(again a one trick pony)... Did yo buy the one Mech with no backup weapons? Not to mention, LRMs are not entirely useless IF you have TAG. So again only one Mech has badly diminished use thanks to ECM.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 05 February 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

So again only one Mech has badly diminished use thanks to ECM.

The problem is autohitting streaks makes it entirely pointless to run a light mech without ECM. Pretty much every light mech without ecm is useless because you get completely dominated by lights with streaks.

Light mechs rely on speed to not get hit. So having a weapon that hits them automatically regardless of their speed is completely counter-intuitive. Streaks need to have a chance to miss so lights that dont have ECM still have a place in the game.

Ultimately, the underlying problem is that LRMs and Streaks were never balanced properly. ECM may do its job of countering them, but its at the expense of making any light without ECM a liability. That's a poor way to balance the game.

Edited by Khobai, 05 February 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[silentD11]

DocBach, on 30 January 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

same can be said about how annoying it is to be spammed by never ending salvos of Ultra AC/5 or AC/2 rounds, or nine small pulse lasers from a Hunchback, or whatever. Getting shot at sucks, but introducing a game breaking piece of equipment to try to fix it just breaks a bunch more stuff.

The AC's and lasers take some skill to hit with, the LRMs are the perfect definition of no skill though. There is a difference. I can respect the former, I can't respect someone who uses the latter.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

So...this topic that started in december still hasn't been beaten like a dead horse long enough?

PPC's will soon disrupt ECM, there, happy? It gives PPC's a better role, AND nerfs ecm.

[Carcass23]

You could try putting actual SRMs on that cat and.. aim. Seems to me that most people who get upset and post here about ECM ruining the game are the ones who cannot grasp the concept of teamwork. I PUG exclusively, yet I am still a team player and ECM is not the be all end all by any stretch of the imagination. The umbrella is only so big, almost assuredly someone is going to leave the umbrella. Also, blowing up the mech with the ECM on it helps a lot. Its lovely to see players come together and think strategically. Good teams see the threats and work at eliminating them. Crybabies are mad at the world because they cant destroy the whole team by themselves, yep.. you can't. Get used to it.

[silentD11]

Jade Kitsune, on 05 February 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

So...this topic that started in december still hasn't been beaten like a dead horse long enough?

PPC's will soon disrupt ECM, there, happy? It gives PPC's a better role, AND nerfs ecm.

Wont' stop the crying from come people, because a PPC requires a modicum of skill to hit with. Which negates the entire reason people use LRMs and streaks anyways.

[CECILOFS]

silentD11, on 05 February 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

The AC's and lasers take some skill to hit with, the LRMs are the perfect definition of no skill though. There is a difference. I can respect the former, I can't respect someone who uses the latter.

I'm so tired of this blatant lie. LRMs take DIFFERENT skills to hit with. They don't take twitch aiming skills but you need to have good positioning and know where your target is going to be in 5-10 seconds time. They are easier than ANY other weapon to avoid, plus need at least 1 mech on the team to have a lock for indirect fire, meaning the mech with LOS is still vulnerable to direct fire.

ECM completely counters LRMs unless you spend 1t and an energy weapon slot for Tag, which then has a chance of sometimes letting you fire your weapons with a lock.

ECM just flat out completely counters streaks, unless you are some sort of god that can stay in the 20m bracket at which you can still fire them.

For Artemis to work, you need LOS, which means you are vulnerable.

LRMs need further balancing yes, but they are a valid weapon and take skill to use properly. Spamming them blindly from 1k away never amounted to much damage if the opponent used cover effectively.

How would you feel about a direct-fire weapon that travelled 100kph and you needed to lead your target by 10 seconds? Yeah eactly.

[CECILOFS]

silentD11, on 05 February 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Wont' stop the crying from come people, because a PPC requires a modicum of skill to hit with. Which negates the entire reason people use LRMs and streaks anyways.

Personally the reason I use them is 2-fold:

1. To compensate for 250+ ping which even with the net code changes recently makes it incredibly difficult to hit fast moving targets.

2. I don't like/am not good at twich-based aiming. Thankfully this is NOT an FPS, but a Mech Simulator game in a universe where guided weaponry, effective cover use and team tactics play a greater role.

Its unbelievable that people can complain about the A1 SRM cat being able to abuse cover to get close, but then say LRMs are OP. Hide behind the mountain/building!

[Moonsavage]

CECILOFS, on 05 February 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Thankfully this is NOT an FPS

ORLY

[CECILOFS]

Moonsavage, on 05 February 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

ORLY

Yes, I think its an important point that needs to be stated.

From the "Game" tab on this site:

"MechWarrior Online

A tactical BattleMech simulation set in 3049 AD. As a pilot known as a "MechWarrior", you are about to take control of the most powerful mechanical battle units the universe has ever seen."

Edited by CECILOFS, 05 February 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[Gruse]

All im getting from this forums is someone is hurt because they cant beat ECM with a missle boated mech, therefore ECM is Op.

ECM is disigned to reduce the damage you take before you reach the ECM bubble by streaks and LRMS. Before ECM, matches last about 3 minutes because of the amount of catapaults and LRM boating mechs. with ECM, Streaks started becoming a meta because you can have lots of them and an incredible amount of ammo. Streaks and LRMS are still viable in the game. you just need these thing

1)Have Tag with you so you can cancel out the ECM
2)Since PPC's are getting a EMP effect for the ECM, go awsome, K2 stock, or start getting PPCs.
3) Have an 2 ECM mechs communicate so they can Jam and Disrupt.
4)Take your Streaks and STAY WITH YOUR ECM MECHS, sure you might have a longer lock on time, but with the amount of mechs with you it wont matter, "oh god my K/D ratio is so low, Teamwork is overated

[Odins Fist]

[zargslayer]

I've just gotten used to separating ECM atlases and putting some PPC on my LRM Stalker... I never used streaks only SRM 6's even before ECM Atlas was Rampant, 1 shot any light anyways no need to hit with every last one of them.

[MurnShaw]

I miss mechs all the time with my SSRMs. Good players are smart enough to put a hill between me and themselves when they hear, "Incoming Missles".

Khobai, on 05 February 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

The problem is autohitting streaks makes it entirely pointless to run a light mech without ECM. Pretty much every light mech without ecm is useless because you get completely dominated by lights with streaks.

Light mechs rely on speed to not get hit. So having a weapon that hits them automatically regardless of their speed is completely counter-intuitive. Streaks need to have a chance to miss so lights that dont have ECM still have a place in the game.

Ultimately, the underlying problem is that LRMs and Streaks were never balanced properly. ECM may do its job of countering them, but its at the expense of making any light without ECM a liability. That's a poor way to balance the game.

[Tennex]

lol they look at critical health to nerf everything.

who is the stupid in charge of balance.
all that does is generate binomial gameplay.

[Beoron]

Hey everyone.

I have found through many rounds that it is still possible to use missiles at points in the match (due to range or the poor positioning of an enemy) however the ECM basically counters any missile heavy build. The main reason is because everyone clusters around the ECM mech for protection.

If the ECM was only for the mech that equiped it then this would not be an issue as you could target others in the enemy lance. This really highlights the problem with the implementation of this feature. Why would you choose any other module when they generally only benefit the individual mech? I think this is the main reason why the ECM is truly unbalanced. If you have earned it for yourself then power to you. But why should the entire lance get immunity when they have done nothing to earn it? In some ways the radius actually diminishes the personal achievement of the ECM as there will almost always be one in a match. Why earn it when others can do it for you?

I realise the problem with what I am saying and it probably is to do with the Battle tech cannon. If the ECM's function is to cast a protective net over your team mates then i suppose this will remain. However in the interests of gameplay may I offer the following compromise:

- The radius of effect for the ECM should have a time limit (say 60 sec) and a cool down (90 sec) that leaves a window for missiles to become effective for brief periods. 90 - 60 = 30 second window
- The ECM will work at all times for the mech that equips it.

Think about the strategic options presented by this and the function of the ECM. Now the user of the ECM must actually DO SOMETHING and THINK about when they choose to cast this jamming function for their team mates. LRM Boats mowing you down?... Hit the ECM and your team can cover the distance to counter. SRM Cat smashing you?... ECM and focus fire. Goin all in to a brawl...ECM.

On the inverse side a missile heavy build will either be forced to retreat or use cover until the effect runs out and then try to do damage in the window between the end of the jam and the cooldown timer. At least now they have a chance. Now they have to THINK.

Afterall isnt that what seperates mechwarrior from the rest. A thinking persons shooter.

I realise more than one ECM will be able to keep this up in perpetuity but they still need to coordinate and do something rather than just be immune.

Long post. Hope i contributed well to making the game even better. ( it really is still a good game)

[Deadxero]

No it's not, it's a counter to dedicated LRM boats. And it as well can be countered either by a friendly ECM boat or Tag/NARC.

I won't argue that ECM isn't powerful, because it is. Your argument is a bit ridiculous. Your point is that it won't let you sit halfway across the map and rain down 1k damage a game without ever getting into range of the enemy. ECM forces you to either bring a Tag, and actually pilot your mech to use it, or coordinate with your team in order to work around it. ECM encourages diversity, in that maybe you have to put some lasers on your LRM cheese-boat and not hide behind a mountain, and/or teamwork. Most would argue that this is a good thing.


Edit: wow didn't realize this was a necro-thread...

Edited by Deadxero, 11 February 2013 - 01:58 PM.