6 replies to this topic

[Gallowglas]

I don't think that the current implementation of ECM is that bad. I do think it needs some tweaking. However, one issue that is a bit more esoteric that we started seeing in our 8v8 drops is that without match balancing, you can pretty much rest assured that most matches are going to be 1-2 scout mechs and 6-7 heavies and assaults. Medium mechs have all but disappeared. And, honestly, when we dropped with mediums of our own, it was clear why: with ECM cloaking, matches basically come in a few varieties:

1) Sneaky, long-route base rushes

2) Mexican standoffs where both teams sit back in cover and either wait for the other team to make a mistake or else have their scouts give them tags so they could hammer with LRMS to give an advantage for a push

3) Flanked assault rushes where you catch the other team unawares and try to get a few quick kills before the other team converges

Now, those tactics are fine. However, ECM cloaking basically allows even assault mechs to get the drop on the opposing team, whereas before, flank rushes happened less often by the slower mechs and more often by the mediums and lights.

Frankly, I think mediums need a bit of a boost and you could kill two birds with one stone in making ECM's a bit more balanced. My suggestion is to reserve the active jamming capabilities of ECM to the light and medium mechs. This would give people a compelling reason to pilot those weight classes without changing too much and without making things too unbalanced.

Anyway, I will grant that my observations are anecdotal. I don't know if my experiences have been typical of what most people are seeing. I just thought I'd offer an objective opinion about what I've seen and what I *think* might be an effective solution.

[WardenWolf]

I agree that ECM is overpowered, but I don't think further restricting what mechs can use it (or part of it) is the answer. I am in the process of going over what ECM did in TT Battletech and past MW video games, and then will post my thoughts as to what ECM should really do.

[Gallowglas]

WardenWolf, on 06 December 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

I agree that ECM is overpowered, but I don't think further restricting what mechs can use it (or part of it) is the answer.

Well, my problem is only partially even about ECM. It's more what ECM does to weight balancing in 8v8 matches. Honestly, aside from that, I don't have a huge problem with ECM. I am certain it probably needs some minor adjustment, but I don't think it's as bad as some have made it out to be.

[RedMercury]

Unbalanced matchmaking is actually fun, but only if you are allowed to withdraw from battle as the undertonned side. If they made a mechanic that allowed mechs to withdraw (and economic disincentives for doing so unless you are actually the undertonned side), then the possibily imbalanced matchmaking just adds another tactical element to the game.

[Gallowglas]

RedMercury, on 06 December 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Unbalanced matchmaking is actually fun, but only if you are allowed to withdraw from battle as the undertonned side. If they made a mechanic that allowed mechs to withdraw (and economic disincentives for doing so unless you are actually the undertonned side), then the possibily imbalanced matchmaking just adds another tactical element to the game.

Well, I don't think you have to remove the incentive for people to play all Atlases if that's what they want. However, I think the niche for mediums have been eroded to the point where people feel like playing them in an organized 8v8 match is inadvisable. I'd hate to see the game devolve to the escalated "I must drive an assault to win" mentality that PGI has worked against, even if it's just in 8v8 play. Variety and choice are good!

[Derick Cruisaire]

Gallowglas, on 06 December 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

I'd hate to see the game devolve to the escalated "I must drive an assault to win" mentality that PGI has worked against, even if it's just in 8v8 play. Variety and choice are good!

From what I have seen so far this is what has happened to 8v8. Actually it isn't, "I must drive an assault", in general. It is, "I must drive an Atlas DDC with ECM", specifically. Almost every 8v8 that I have participated in consisted of a balanced group on our side and 1-2 scouts with 5-6 ECM DDC Atlases and a heavy or two on the other side. The typical result of which is:

Pilot #1: "No contacts over here."
Pilot #2: "No one over here either."
Pilot #3-#8: "Where are they then? Hold on, I thought I saw something behind that hill. Wait one. Holy (redacted) two, wait, three no five Atlases. Give us a target. Can't, they are all ECM, (redacted) I'm, dead." Repeat seven more times.

I am being satirical with the above, but it really is not too far from the truth.

The obvious counter to this is to put together you own group of 5-6 (or just 8) DDC Atlases with ECM. Which means, grind as fast as possible to get one and throw the rest of the Mechs in the salvage yard. I don't care for this option. So I will likely stick to four pilot groups or PUG it until something changes.

I still have great hope for this game, but this recent turn of events makes me a bit of a sad panda.

[Peiper]

All mechs should get ECM. ECCM ability should be a second/separate piece of gear allowed only for lights. You should still be able to identify targets if you can SEE them, even at a distance. ECM can still mess up targetting of missles and gathering info on mech damage, just at least allow us to identify stuff for the purposes of communication.

I don't even know why I'm responding. I am beginning to think the Devs just don't care or we'd have heard SOMETHING by now.

And my word... woah be it to the new, and even casual players...