154 replies to this topic

[Belkor]

Codejack, on 06 December 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Do you have any idea how upset people who have actually run a streakcat get when you say this? You go try to hold a reticule on a 140kph, jump-jetting Jenner, then come back and tell me that it's easy. It isn't.

Oh, yea, you don't have to aim.... except for the 2.5 seconds it takes to get a lock when you have to be REALLY good at aiming...which you have to do every couple of volleys since you can't turn as fast as they can run.... and if you get shaken while you are trying to get lock, at that range, you pretty much have to start over...

As opposed to those lucky enough to not have the lag problem; let's see here, the crosshair is over the enemy mech, what does that mean again? Oh, if I press the button, I hit? No lock-on, no delay, no AMS, no ECM, concentrated damage (if you are half as good at aiming as a streakboat pilot has to be, anyway...); oooh, you are SOOO much better than the rest of us

LMAO, are you seriously calling that skill? You were actually having difficulty aiming a streaks reticle?!?! You point your streaks in the general direction of the enemy and it locks. For SRMs and ballistics, you have to adjust for projectile speed. For ballistics and lasers, there are finer section aiming involved.

And look at that, just won another match with no ECM on my team while the enemy team had ECM. ECMs are having next to no effect on the outcome of my matches.

Edited by Belkor, 07 December 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[Plavis]

ECM is fine, coming from an A1 pilot i rely dont mind ECM, i still can aim and blast people.
this round out team dint have any ECM, enmy team had the ECM ravens but we had my alpha kitty, the ravens we all turned in to scrap metal in 1 volly

Edited by Plavis, 07 December 2012 - 11:28 PM.

[deadeye mcduck]

Im loving all these "ECM needs a fix/nerf" etc posts, when the problem is not ECM, but players inability in dealing with ECM and not coming up with counter tactics/strategies to deal with ECM.

Im getting sick of these players wanting the game to be "easy mode". If you want this, go play Hawken.

[TruePoindexter]

Plavis, on 07 December 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

ECM is fine, coming from an A1 pilot i rely dont mind ECM, i still can aim and blast people.
this round out team dint have any ECM, enmy team had the ECM ravens but we had my alpha kitty, the ravens we all turned in to scrap metal in 1 volly

This is why even if I have ECM I don't like approaching an A1 until I know what its weapons are.

[Codejack]

deadeye mcduck, on 08 December 2012 - 02:52 AM, said:

Im loving all these "ECM needs a fix/nerf" etc posts, when the problem is not ECM, but players inability in dealing with ECM and not coming up with counter tactics/strategies to deal with ECM.

Im getting sick of these players wanting the game to be "easy mode". If you want this, go play Hawken.

/facepalm

Does nobody actually read? I am tearing the place up in my Halfcat; 3xSSRM2 and ECM, and you're telling me that it's fine?!

[Lugh]

Quote

Codejack, on 06 December 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

I said no whingers.

Lefty Lucy, on 06 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

That word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

I also don't think it's spelled the way he tinks it is...

[Mongoose Trueborn]

ECM is the best thing to ever happen to this game. It's more fun now than it has ever been.

[Codejack]

Lugh, on 08 December 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

[url="http://mwomercs.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=1559910"]


I also don't think it's spelled the way he tinks it is...

Oh wow, I would have thought that this would be funny.... but it's just sad.

[Ogresan]

ECM is working great. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Edit: What is with all these people calling for BAP to counter ECM, a system designed to counter BAP? I think one fix that should be made is the "Low Signal" we get on our minimaps should only be for BAP equipped mechs. That is the only way you are supposed to know you are being jammed. Oh and lrms and ssrms should still be able to get locks within los, outside of the 180m range, just slowly.

So, maybe very slightly broken so fix a little.

Edited by Ogresan, 08 December 2012 - 06:29 AM.

[Praehotec8]

Here are my thoughts on ECM/missles:

1.) Aiming is not difficult in this game, mechs are large targets and putting a crosshair on them/leading is relatively simple. LRMs are not any easier to use than aimed weapons, just different. LRMs are not about where to shoot, but WHEN to shoot (and when not to), and where to be in relation to the battle. Good support LRM fire takes at least some thought (and doesn't mean sitting back 1000m lobbing rockets any time the HUD turns red).

2.) I don't have much experience using streaks, but at least the screen shake should be lessened. ECM limits who can use them, but doesn't fix what seems to be the core issues with them. (Also, why does it feel like every mech running ECM loads up on streaks?)

3.) Are LRMs supposed to be a supporting weapon or a weapon requiring extensive support to use? It does not make much sense for them to be both at the same time. If they are supporting fire (and hence not meant to get extensive kills, more to weaken, etc..), they should be usable largely on their own, and if they require significant scouting/TAG use, etc.. to be used, they ought to be devastating in power to make up for it. Proponents that everything is fine for LRMs right now seem to feel it is okay for them to be both mediocre and yet require extensive aiming assistance.

4.) ECM is counterable, but for an LRM user, very frustrating to go against in PUGs where the chance of someone countering it is small. My cat C4 carries 4X LRM 15, and 2 ML, and one game did 1 (!) damage against a well clustered team covered by ECM. I don't think I lose more than before to well organized teams, but the feeling of being unable to fight back effectively is very frustrating. Probably less of an issue in team games, but still....

5.) ECM seems to have no downsides to using at all, and few counters other than more ECM. This should be adjusted somehow (other countermeasures/increased difficulty/cost to use, etc). I guarantee that holding TAG on a fast moving target for the enitre time it takes LRMs to travel 450m or more (when TAG changes) is harder than brawling and aiming close range).

6.) My cat A-1 has changed from 2X LRM 15, 2X LRM 5, 2X SRM 6 to 2X LRM 15 and 4X SRM 6, and my kill rate has gone up, and is certainly useful in matches (last game I had 4 kills), but a) I find I use the SRMs almost exclusively and this isn't the style of play I enjoy the most.

I am not suggesting particular fixes, and think ECM should remain useful, but feel that there do need to be some balance changes. Also, please stop suggesting that all LRM use is EASYIWINMODE.

Edited by Praehotec8, 08 December 2012 - 08:23 AM.

[Bear44]

Kernfeuer, on 06 December 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

and at this point ur wrong it canot be that an sythem of 1,5T can domminate the battlefield (and it does..just try pug..only the side whit more ecm wins almost)

and by the way...at current state the Bap is wastet space..it needed an buff..so why not this?..

and really please dont argue about tactics or skill...the ecm requires lesser skill then an streak sythem (as example) you dont have to do anything exept be in range of ur buddys...and tactics?..lol if the enemy side got one more ecm mech as you do..then you will probably loose that match..so tellme who is tactic there?

And at least... for all those whiners about streak cats...iam still using this build..whit an ecm buddy ..going to have my fun ..just sad about the poor Lrm cats/builds..theys having an hard time now

so your comparing an known overpowered build to make judgement on a overpowered build. streaks take no skill, fit yourself with srm6 and show the world your skills.

[Monoc]

I am glad ECM is making it into the game, however it needs to be tweaked a little.

I like many of the proposed tweaks, but favor a return to MW4's ECM system or something similar.
It protects the equipped mech only, reduces oppenent sensor range by 50%, increases oppenent time to lock on, and can be fielded on more mechs. (around 33% of total mechs)
I was would also propose turning down SSRM projectile agility greatly, include leg joints in SSRM spread, and reducing damage by 0.5 per missile.

Allow BAP to extend sensor range by 200, but does not decrease lock time vs ECM. Allow BAP on certain mechs like ECM as well.

On a side note.
ECM is not a fix for streak boats and stop being referred to as such.
All those saying ECM is fine and everyone should adapt, the same was said about SSRMs.

[Helbourne]

Simple fix... go read the TT rules. I swear almost no one reads the rules of the game which this online game comes from. All the Guardian ECM suit does removes the cluster bonus from Artemis IV and NARC and jams the BAP which it knows it. Plus it intrurupts the C3 computer system. C3 is not a targeting computer for those that don't know. It allows communication between mechs, as in locations of mechs. That is it, NOTHING more. Now really confuse people, the C3i (improved) does not get effected be ECM. Now it is worth noting C3 and C3i are not compatible.

In short, missles still get lock-on (just no cluster hit bonus) and please go read the rules!

Edited by Helbourne, 08 December 2012 - 08:32 AM.

[Elkarlo]

Helbourne as said it also would reduce detection ranges.
MechSensors down to 180 Meters.
BAP Sensors Down to 360 MEters.

Hey suddenly the 1.5 tons of BaP would make sense..

Edited by Elkarlo, 08 December 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[Helbourne]

Elkarlo, on 08 December 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Helbourne as said it also would reduce detection ranges.
MechSensors down to 180 Meters.
BAP Sensors Down to 360 MEters.

Hey suddenly the 1.5 tons of BaP would make sense..

What do you know... use the table top rules and reduced sensor range as Elkarlo put it, would be a good fix. BAP users would feel the resources are worth it.

Just read the table top game rules!