288 replies to this topic

[Serevn]

Lefty Lucy, on 06 December 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

I've been having a lot of fun playing 8 mans. I understand that some people aren't good enough. Part of being good is knowing and adapting to the meta. I understand that the meta could be more balanced, but I bought a CDA-3M and a AS7-D-DC because those mechs are what's useful to my team right now, even though I'm primarily a medium and heavy pilot when I PUG.

Right and they bot bored with having to pilot mechs they don't like or are used to, just because you aparently like assualt and light mechs doesn't mean others do, I personally get hella bored playing an atlas, and i only occationally take out a light out, but when I do, people rage
Also too bring the "they all suck and I'm good" argument says a lot for your attitude and is quite rude, especially when you imply it to everyone who doesn't like the current 8v8.

Edited by Serevn, 06 December 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[Arcadian Xero]

I don't know what any of you guys are talking about. We have been running nothing but 8 man drops every night since patch, several hours a night. Maybe one match each night was some ridiculous Raven/Commando/Cicada ECM base rush, and we crushed them into the dirt running 2/2/2/2.

Also I should clarify that we ONLY run 2/2/2/2 as we are preparing for the RHOD league starting up again.

Tonight we ran into a 3 DDC, 3 Phract, 2 Light drop, so we were outgunned quite a bit... And we still won. All of our other matches were against balanced teams.

Maybe you all have really bad luck, or you have a severe hatred of teams who use ECM effectively (we run 4), or you are all lying.

My corporation almost DIED because of phase 1, and we REFUSE to go back to doing 4 man drops because it is SO TERRIBLE. I don't think the 8 man drops are fading out, I think bad groups are fading out. This is where the real competition is now, and if you can't hack it, stay out or get better, it's as simple as that.

And those of you out there who do run your cheese build set ups, I can't wait to lead the Dark Sabers against you, because we will crush you, and we will laugh at you as we do it. But for those of you who run balanced drops and aren't ********, we salute you.

To those of you in this thread who aren't a fan of the way 8 man drops are for you and your friends, might I suggest coming over to our side? We can show you that it is still a good time.

[Hakkukakt]

hello

the problem is too, depend on hours time, that you need to find the 8 mans groups ...

when your are 5-6-7 ... then you split on group 3 et 4 ...

we need the possible group 5-7 that can go on battle with 1-3 Pugs for complet ....

Edited by Hakkukakt, 06 December 2012 - 09:53 PM.

[Lord Ikka]

What's bad is that its very difficult to synch 8-mans to scrim against. We're looking at the "Steiner Scout" groups as a challenge, frustrating but fun to beat.

[Dmitri Valenov]

I ran with an 8 man group of random people on one of the community TS3 servers and we did perfectly fine. Our first couple of matches were pretty bad because we ran in to "cheese teams", but ultimately we figured out what we did wrong and picked a strategy that worked for our group. I think we only lost one match after that and all of them were pretty damn fun.

Just stay out of the line of fire of Gauss builds and everything is fine.

[Kelito]

All y'all are teched in the head... Anyone, including PGI, who says the idea of 4 man teams fixes the pug stomping issue, has something wrong under the hair area. I have dropped against 8 man "synced" droppers time and time again. Sometimes against the same 8 man team over 3 consecutive matches, weird!

There is really no way to fix the matchmaking issue, as I see it, as long as 8 pugs can "Sync" their drops and get in together, then how would it be fixed.

I am not complaining mind you, cause I only PUG, cause 4 man teams is boring to me, not ENOUGH teamwork, it just feels like....Eh....

I would like to see a fix, getting rolled all the time is not only boring, but it is taking me FOREVER to level my chassies, cause a loss is still only 100xp whether I fight or not if we get rolled. Just don't know how that is gonna be done.

Oh, and the 8v8 is a joke too, as stated previously, not too many 8v8 teams going on...Logged onto TS just to see how many 8 man teams there were and I counted 3 total on both the EU and US servers. Well, phase 2.....FANFARE...fizzle.....

Good luck to all of you that only PUG, maybe I am just a horrible mech pilot for not being able to take out 5 atlasas by myself????

[Bishop Steiner]

Elizander, on 06 December 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

This much is expected. Of course some teams just can't get 8 people together so they drop in groups of 2-4 while waiting but you can't expect everyone to maintain their 8-man attitude when facing teams that are competitive. The matches are more tiring if you try for the win and a lot of teams prefer to run a mix of mechs rather than going for the "Most ECM Mechs in a Team" award.

Even without ECM and the Atlas, I still expect a lot of 8-man teams to break down once they hit a wall in terms of opponent's they can't beat. Some teams are just not able to get past the plateau of pug stomping (I'm not generalizing all premades here, mind you).

I'm thinking that 8 man mode is better suited to a WoW-style arena with ratings and rewards for further incentives, though that usually leads to win trading once the top teams thin out and it's easier to fix up matches late at night.

All good points. I do a mix of 8 man, 4 man and PUG drops. And truth to tell, 8 man are the least fun. Not due to losing, which happens, but also happens when Pugging, and on 4 mans. But due to the ridiculous level of "serious gamer" min/maxing, 6 DDC/2 Cicada or 4 DDC/4 Raven rush stomp groups.

One of my biggest gripes in ANY format was certain weapons and items leading to trends, especially trends that obsolete all teh Canon mechs. I like to be competitive, and to wwin, or at least lose the good fight. But I play because I love Battletech. And right now the "Pro-Gamer" crowd has 8 man hardly looking like Battletech, or even half *** MW4. Only mediums you see are Cicadas. Only lights are ECM Commandos and Ravens. Etc.

I will give credit to a few groups who have found ways to sneak in Streak-A-Pults and such creatively, and my own unit has been pretty good at using LRMs even with ECM, but the Ninja Caps TBH, are just BORING.

I would rather PUG and lose, and have variety, then see the same 3-4 min/maxxed builds every match. 8 man is not 100% broken, but without any sort of weight balancing, I do find it caters too much to the cheese crowd. If I have to run my group with 6 DDC to succeed, I gotta admit, I am not really interested. Winning in itself is not the fun. Winning or even losing a tough match, can be but only if you aren't forced into a narrow set of builds to succeed. So far most matches have been a stomp, with Either my guys rolling them, or them rolling us, but very few good, long, drawn out fights.

That said, like the din of complaints for virtually everything else, I figure at some point we will see some balance introduced, so when I have enough Unit members on for 8, I will drop 8, when I have enough for 4, 4, and if not, I will PUG.

[Slaytronic]

if the game wanted to make money they would have put ecm on the hero mech

[Hakkukakt]

Quote

Oh, and the 8v8 is a joke too, as stated previously, not too many 8v8 teams going on...Logged onto TS just to see how many 8 man teams there were and I counted 3 total on both the EU and US servers. Well, phase 2.....FANFARE...fizzle.....

hum you just forget that the 8 mans team generaly use her proper TS server .. so you have no luck to find it on EU or US MWO TS server ...

and so, for the moment we need to adapt on the cheesy build ... all group have counterpart ... that's only 3 days with the new situation ... we just need time to find a good strategy for counter this people that will only win with no honor

^^ no problem for me, i have only Catapult on my mechlab, so the choice is easy to select the mech i will put in game ^^

Edited by Hakkukakt, 06 December 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Serevn, on 06 December 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

Right and they bot bored with having to pilot mechs they don't like or are used to, just because you aparently like assualt and light mechs doesn't mean others do, I personally get hella bored playing an atlas, and i only occationally take out a light out, but when I do, people rage
Also too bring the "they all suck and I'm good" argument says a lot for your attitude and is quite rude, especially when you imply it to everyone who doesn't like the current 8v8.

Well, I didn't say that I'm good. However, if you don't try to adapt to the meta, even if it is slightly broken, then you'll *never* be good.

I enjoy team work.

I enjoy competition.

Right now 8 v 8 is the only way to really get both, even if the game isn't that well balanced for it yet.

[Bishop Steiner]

Arcadian Xero, on 06 December 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

I don't know what any of you guys are talking about. We have been running nothing but 8 man drops every night since patch, several hours a night. Maybe one match each night was some ridiculous Raven/Commando/Cicada ECM base rush, and we crushed them into the dirt running 2/2/2/2.

Also I should clarify that we ONLY run 2/2/2/2 as we are preparing for the RHOD league starting up again.

Tonight we ran into a 3 DDC, 3 Phract, 2 Light drop, so we were outgunned quite a bit... And we still won. All of our other matches were against balanced teams.

Maybe you all have really bad luck, or you have a severe hatred of teams who use ECM effectively (we run 4), or you are all lying.

My corporation almost DIED because of phase 1, and we REFUSE to go back to doing 4 man drops because it is SO TERRIBLE. I don't think the 8 man drops are fading out, I think bad groups are fading out. This is where the real competition is now, and if you can't hack it, stay out or get better, it's as simple as that.

And those of you out there who do run your cheese build set ups, I can't wait to lead the Dark Sabers against you, because we will crush you, and we will laugh at you as we do it. But for those of you who run balanced drops and aren't ********, we salute you.

To those of you in this thread who aren't a fan of the way 8 man drops are for you and your friends, might I suggest coming over to our side? We can show you that it is still a good time.

50/50 win loss, but lemme tell ya, I would love to see you gus, or Lucys crew, because even if we lost at least it would be interessting. I would say 90% of units we saw tonight, were one of the 2 set ups I posted earlier. Maybe one or 2 mechs as fliers (did see a few Phracts and even an awesome or 2), but they were far in the Minority. I also don't mind pulling hte occasional Cap Rush for a win, but seems like most units were all or nothing rushes. Did split a few fun fights against Creddit and whichever corps 6String Samurai and LawDog run with (i forget but they defintely got the better of us tonight). But most were No Names running cheese units. Probably didn't help that only 4-5 of us were Legion Members so we were trying to get chemistry with TeamSpeak PUGs.

Maybe that is the key I need to remember, only 8 man with your brother and sister unit members. Depending on randoms in an 8 man is like depending on PUGs in 4 mans. Might get quality, might bite you in the ***.

[Kelito]

Hakkukakt, on 06 December 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

hum you just forget that the 8 mans team generaly use her proper TS server .. so you have no luck to find it on EU or US MWO TS server ...

I will admit to this statement, however, the "PROS" are not the only gamers this is supposed to be catering to...I played one 8v8 to see if it was as fun and challenging as it was before they implemented the "Phased" matchmaking, and well, lets just say that I do agree with others that there are a lot of cheese orgs out there... If you are honerable and play for the fun of the game and a good challenge, then...where can I sign up... But if I am gonna get rolled anyway, PUG it is...

[Stargazer86]

Alexandrix, on 06 December 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

This is a problem with the ridiculous implementation of ECM.it's totally dicked the meta right now.I really would rather be in one of my many other mechs,but i'm stuck in this stupid D-DC.I feel like I'm doing my team a disservice if I don't run it.So,I feel you on not being able to run the mech you wanna run,really i do.

Having said that,you either do what you have to do to be on par with whatever you might face,or you go running back to 4 man pugstomping with your tail between your legs.You know what's out there,find out what works for your team to defeat it.Yes,I know it's much easier to just go faceroll pugs for easy mode wins/cbills,but isn't this what you wanted? a challenge?
well,it's not the challenge you expected to face...but there it is.

"Doing whatever it takes to win" is not a fun attitude for me. Being forced to use a cheese build to compete isn't fun. It makes the metagame boring as all get out when everyone is doing the same thing because that's what needs to be done to win. Without any sort of variety, you stem innovation, and it just becomes one team of identical builds against another.

Imagine you go to a card game tournament where everyone is using the exact same deck, or the same deck with only minor variations. That's horrifically boring and tedious. It may be competitive and the proper thing to do to win, but it's certainly nowhere near fun. Does it make you a better player? No. You can still be technically proficient at the game and individually be quite good. Does it better your chances at winning? Yes, of course. Using the best items available to you, even if they're absurdly broken, is the logical choice. It may not be the honorable one or the fair one, but that's what you have to do to win.

But it's not fun.

Edited by Stargazer86, 06 December 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

50/50 win loss, but lemme tell ya, I would love to see you gus, or Lucys crew, because even if we lost at least it would be interessting. I would say 90% of units we saw tonight, were one of the 2 set ups I posted earlier. Maybe one or 2 mechs as fliers (did see a few Phracts and even an awesome or 2), but they were far in the Minority. I also don't mind pulling hte occasional Cap Rush for a win, but seems like most units were all or nothing rushes. Did split a few fun fights against Creddit and whichever corps 6String Samurai and LawDog run with (i forget but they defintely got the better of us tonight). But most were No Names running cheese units. Probably didn't help that only 4-5 of us were Legion Members so we were trying to get chemistry with TeamSpeak PUGs.

Maybe that is the key I need to remember, only 8 man with your brother and sister unit members. Depending on randoms in an 8 man is like depending on PUGs in 4 mans. Might get quality, might bite you in the ***.

One of the benefits of all the time I spent PUGging and doing 4-mans with no voice is that I have some *really* talented guys on my friends list.

[Alexandrix]

Arcadian Xero, on 06 December 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

I don't think the 8 man drops are fading out, I think bad groups are fading out. This is where the real competition is now, and if you can't hack it, stay out or get better, it's as simple as that.

I like the cut of your jibe,sir.

Edited by Alexandrix, 06 December 2012 - 10:12 PM.

[Arcadian Xero]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

50/50 win loss, but lemme tell ya, I would love to see you gus, or Lucys crew, because even if we lost at least it would be interessting. I would say 90% of units we saw tonight, were one of the 2 set ups I posted earlier. Maybe one or 2 mechs as fliers (did see a few Phracts and even an awesome or 2), but they were far in the Minority. I also don't mind pulling hte occasional Cap Rush for a win, but seems like most units were all or nothing rushes. Did split a few fun fights against Creddit and whichever corps 6String Samurai and LawDog run with (i forget but they defintely got the better of us tonight). But most were No Names running cheese units. Probably didn't help that only 4-5 of us were Legion Members so we were trying to get chemistry with TeamSpeak PUGs.

Maybe that is the key I need to remember, only 8 man with your brother and sister unit members. Depending on randoms in an 8 man is like depending on PUGs in 4 mans. Might get quality, might bite you in the ***.

Sixstring and Lawdog are Dark Sabers actually haha. They ran a few more after I logged off. So you have come across us, but I don;t know how balanced their drops were after I left.

[Odins Fist]

Riffleman, on 06 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Really? You gave 8 man games a try for 3 whole days? This is becoming a trend as its at least 6 recognizable teams I have seen today alone. One of the groups was on my team, I asked them what happened, is the dream dead already? They said 8v8 is total bs right now, nothing running but cheeze builds.

.
Explain to me "EXACTLY" what you mean by "Cheese Builds" please... (EXAMPLES)

[Bishop Steiner]

Stargazer86, on 06 December 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

"Doing whatever it takes to win" is not a fun attitude for me. Being forced to use a cheese build to compete isn't fun. It makes the metagame boring as all get out where everyone is doing the same thing because that's what needs to be done to win. Without any sort of variety, you stem innovation, and it just becomes one team of identical builds against another.

Imagine you go to a card game tournament where everyone is using the exact same deck, or the same deck with only minor variations. That's horrifically boring and tedious. It may be competitive and the proper thing to do to win, but it's certainly nowhere near fun.

I can't disagree. I like to compete, yes, and win. But at the end of the day, I can't bring myself to become one of the "Pro-Gamers". My mentality is fun first. It's a bloody video game, and TBH, the best Mechwarrior, or CoD warrior or whatever.. is not exactly an accomplishment that I will have carved on my tombstone, nor is it any more likely to get me laid.

I used to be more intense into it, but maybe age and perspective are catching up. I would rather spend my Saturdays cheering on silly *** college football, my weekends SCUBA diving with REAL people I know, and such, than be the "bestest Mechwarrior EVAH!"

Wow. Maybe I just had an epiphany about my priorities. Mid life crisis, here I come!

[Alexandrix]

Stargazer86, on 06 December 2012 - 10:02 PM, said:

"Doing whatever it takes to win" is not a fun attitude for me. Being forced to use a cheese build to compete isn't fun. It makes the metagame boring as all get out where everyone is doing the same thing because that's what needs to be done to win. Without any sort of variety, you stem innovation, and it just becomes one team of identical builds against another.

Imagine you go to a card game tournament where everyone is using the exact same deck, or the same deck with only minor variations. That's horrifically boring and tedious. It may be competitive and the proper thing to do to win, but it's certainly nowhere near fun.

Oh,i totally agree with you.I really really hope they make some serious changes to ECM.I just don't like what's it done to the game.

Every 8 man game I've been in so far,my team has had,at most 3 ECM mechs.If we have 2 I switch to my "fun" mech.Every time my team has been a balance of weight classes.You don't have to run cheese mode 6+ d-dc to win.Trust me.Just a lot of bad teams are using that as a crutch right now.That's a lot of metal to overcome,but luckily those guys in 6+ d-dc are usually garbage.

[Arcadian Xero]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

I can't disagree. I like to compete, yes, and win. But at the end of the day, I can't bring myself to become one of the "Pro-Gamers". My mentality is fun first. It's a bloody video game, and TBH, the best Mechwarrior, or CoD warrior or whatever.. is not exactly an accomplishment that I will have carved on my tombstone, nor is it any more likely to get me laid.

I used to be more intense into it, but maybe age and perspective are catching up. I would rather spend my Saturdays cheering on silly *** college football, my weekends SCUBA diving with REAL people I know, and such, than be the "bestest Mechwarrior EVAH!"

Wow. Maybe I just had an epiphany about my priorities. Mid life crisis, here I come!

You can always do both. I don't practice with my Corp on the weekends. We only play in super competition modes three nights a week, and the other nights we just goof off.

Alexandrix, on 06 December 2012 - 10:10 PM, said:

You don't have to run cheese mode 6+ d-dc to win.Trust me.Just a lot of bad teams are using that as a crutch right now.That's a lot of metal to overcome,but luckily those guys in 6+ d-dc are usually garbage.

A truer statement has never been said...

Edited by Arcadian Xero, 06 December 2012 - 10:11 PM.