42 replies to this topic

[Pugastrius]

I honestly don't think the ECM can be saved.

Think about it this way...

Which would you rather have an AMS or the ECM operating with any of those options above?

The strongest part of the ECM (cloaking while at long distances) has NO counters (because you have to get close to counter the ECM).

Edited by Pugastrius, 07 December 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[verybad]

QuantumButler, on 07 December 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

IMO, remove it from the Atlas, give all Ravens access to ECM, give ECM to a dragon variant since dragons are bad, and maybe give ECM to the terrible Awesome variant with 2 missile and 3 energy hardpoints, plus if they ever add the Cyclops [90 ton command mech], give it access to ECM as well

Pretty much this. I don't know about giving it to the Awesome, as it's pretty much a simple combat mech, doesn't traditionally carry much electronics, I can see the reasoning however. I think don't remove it from the Atlas DC, just make it's hardpoints a bit crappier.

I think ECM in a Dragon would be a plus. The Dragon is traditionally a command mech for the Draconis, so some extra electronics definately would be a booster for it. Give that same variant a Command Console (for when ever that thing becomes useful) and an extra module ofr two.

Definately give ECM to the Spider next month (at least on a variant) That mech will probably have THE absolute worst hardpoints of any mech in the game so far, though it will also have outstanding agility and speed.

The story in the Highlander introduction SOUNDS like one variants going to get some heft electronics, so that could work also..

A variant of the Treb in Feb with ECM might also be a good thing.

Pugastrius, on 07 December 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

I honestly don't think the ECM can be saved.

Think about it this way...

Which would you rather have an AMS or the ECM operating with any of those options above?

The strongest part of the ECM (cloaking while at long distances) has NO counters (because you have to get close to counter the ECM).

TAG, 750 meters next patch. Get's rid of most missile difficulties re ECM. Displays mechs on the minimap. Makes scouts and scouting more important.

Edited by verybad, 07 December 2012 - 09:23 AM.

[Salient]

Oh GAWDZ look at all these LRM/SSRM ez mode crybabies....

waaahhhhh we can't just sit there and kill everyone anymore!

Edited by Salient, 07 December 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[Pugastrius]

Quote

TAG, 750 meters next patch. Get's rid of most missile difficulties re ECM. Displays mechs on the minimap. Makes scouts and scouting more important.

Great, you get to see one person in an entire group assuming you can hold the tag at 750 for 15 seconds (time to lock plus 10 seconds of missle travel). Still requires you to be within 750 meters and have LoS on the team (which means they have LoS on you). So unless you're an ECM carrying scout this doesn't even help because the entire team can target you, while your team can only target one.

So lets review to "partially" counter (i.e. 1 mech out of 8) the ECM at range you need: LoS, Tag + hold, an ECM yourself and this is only a counter up to 750 meters.

This is not a counter to the group cloak... at all. As I said, there currently is no counter to the ECM at range.

Edited by Pugastrius, 07 December 2012 - 09:39 AM.

[River Walker]

What a joke a poll on how to buff something that dos not need it. Cant win a argument make a poll

Edited by River Walker, 07 December 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[LynxFury]

No option for increased missile lock times.

[Dracol]

LynxFury, on 07 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

No option for increased missile lock times.

According to the command chair post about ECM, lock on times are already increased by ECM.

The line from the post:
"it takes twice as long to achieve a missile lock against a hidden Mech."

Hidden mech refers to mechs covered by an ECM umbrella.

River Walker, on 07 December 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

What a joke a poll on how to buff something that dos not need it. Cant win a argument make a poll

Going to take a guess and say you did not read the options considering most off them are modifications that decrease the effectiveness of ECM.

[Solis Obscuri]

ECM shouldn't be able to prevent target locking or info sharing, period.

[_Rorschach_]

These two are a must have imo:
- Make SSRM act as regular SRM missiles while inside an enemy ECM bubble
- Allow targeting of hidden mechs you have LOS on up to 400 to 500ish m

The first one allows SSRMs to still be viable weapons. If the enemy has no ECM they are superior to SRM. If he does they are inferior due to higher weight & no buff through Artemis.
The second one doesn't really affect SSRMs (you have to be a lot closer to fire them anyway) but enables LRMs to be a reasonable loadout option again. You can no longer hide behind a hill or stay at a perfectly safe distance. But if you face your enemy you can still fight effectively.

LRMs seemed mostly fine to me prior to Tuesday's patch (although the 0.1 dmg buff was unpleasantly noticeable for me in my CNs). There also was only a reasonable number of them around. Now they seem crippled and are near extinct.
SSRMs where somewhat OP and quite OP when boated. Idk if the targeting changes are already in (not only targeting CT but also side torsos and leg and arm joints, spreading damage) but with those they should be ok in most builds. Boating might still make them too powerful against non-ECM, but these builds also loose the most when they go against ECM. So it would become a risky and therefore imo valid loadout.

What might be worth a look is making a single ECCM counter all ECMs within its range. Atm I feel stacking ECMs is too powerful. This might be a remedy to that. But it's hard to say if that wouldn't be too extreme without testing.

Solis Obscuri, on 07 December 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

ECM shouldn't be able to prevent target locking or info sharing, period.

Blocking info sharing is actually in the lore and the TT rules and I think it's reasonable.

Edited by pack wolf, 07 December 2012 - 02:16 PM.

[Dracol]

So far, seems a large number of people agree with you Pack Wolf concerning giving streaks the ability to dumb fire.

[Dracol]

Amazing how quickly new posts are created on this forum.

[Onyx Rain]

I think the umbrella is the root of any unbalancing....

Much less risk of being OP when it only hides the 1 mech.....and you still have the counter/disrupt mechanic...because your ecm mech can counter theirs, even if it is a raven vs a ddc and allow your missile boats to target the ddc....so it is worth doing even if it puts the raven at more risk for awhile. It would make ecm use a real skill...knowing when/when not to...and flipping back and forth a lot from counter/disrupt

Perhaps at least decrease the range of the umbrella, so you gotta stay real tight for it to work....people get impatient and don't wanna move as slow as that DDC, or can't run as fast as that Raven, so they slip in/out of the ecm bubble....those who are patient/slow down to let team keep up get rewarded.

Generally glad strk2 cats are nerfed but think they went a bit to far...Give them dumb fire ability...they shouldn't be defenseless....not very fair now, even though they had quite a reign of terror in the past.

Edited by Onyx Rain, 07 December 2012 - 09:35 PM.

[Dracol]

Modifing how LRM targeting works against ECM has edged out streaks being able to be dumb fired. They were tied for the majority of the time this poll has been active.

[QuantumButler]

verybad, on 07 December 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

Pretty much this. I don't know about giving it to the Awesome, as it's pretty much a simple combat mech, doesn't traditionally carry much electronics, I can see the reasoning however. I think don't remove it from the Atlas DC, just make it's hardpoints a bit crappier.

I think ECM in a Dragon would be a plus. The Dragon is traditionally a command mech for the Draconis, so some extra electronics definately would be a booster for it. Give that same variant a Command Console (for when ever that thing becomes useful) and an extra module ofr two.

Definately give ECM to the Spider next month (at least on a variant) That mech will probably have THE absolute worst hardpoints of any mech in the game so far, though it will also have outstanding agility and speed.

The story in the Highlander introduction SOUNDS like one variants going to get some heft electronics, so that could work also..

A variant of the Treb in Feb with ECM might also be a good thing.


TAG, 750 meters next patch. Get's rid of most missile difficulties re ECM. Displays mechs on the minimap. Makes scouts and scouting more important.

I'm basing my suggestions purely on game balance reasons, not on canon.

My reasoning for the Awesome is that it's generally considered inferior to the Atlas anyway, and the variant I mentioned truely has nothing else going for it, I think it should be removed from the DDC since most people consider th DDC to be the best Atlas, and giving ANY Atlas ECM seems pretty dumb IMO, from a balance standpoint, there's no reason to use any assault other than the ECM Atlas, since it carries phenomenal firepower AND ECM, thus why I suggest giving it to the undergunned awesome, make it an actual choice, do you want to bring an Atlas with lots of guns and armor, or an Awesome with ECM?

Right now you can have BOTH superior firepower and ECM, which is horrible for balance.

[p00k]

i want an option for "make the ecm's not stack"

because, no matter what else you do to it, as long as they stack there will always be a reason to take more of it than the other team. even if you let every mech carry it, it just means every mech will carry it. just because everyone has access to it doesn't make it any less broken if it simply remains a must-have equipment on everything.

[Ikarti Danaro]

It's fine. Just let all Raven variants carry ECM.

[_Rorschach_]

p00k, on 08 December 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

i want an option for "make the ecm's not stack"

because, no matter what else you do to it, as long as they stack there will always be a reason to take more of it than the other team. even if you let every mech carry it, it just means every mech will carry it. just because everyone has access to it doesn't make it any less broken if it simply remains a must-have equipment on everything.

I can definitely agree with that.

[Dracol]

Added an option for non-stacking ECMs.

[Dracol]

Added a second poll to increase the number of suggestions.

Added:
- ECM should weigh more tons
- ECM should require more crit slots

[Krasnovian]

AMS should be returned to only specific chassis and tag should not put an icon visible to friendly mechs