219 replies to this topic

[Selfish]

Bump! I've updated some of the terminology and added some additional subtext to make things more coherent. We'll see what the big patch today brings in lieu of crit updates and additions!

[Selfish]

Patch day went well for crits, and the RAWS show this--though the changes are absent from the patch notes. Both MGs and LB10X's got their slight fixes and are working as intended.

On another note unrelated to crits, the Flamer received a bit of a buff. Its heat addition was bumped from .6->1.4, and its heat generation from .6->1.2.

EDIT: The heat addition was bumped from 0.2->1.4. Minor, but end result is the same!

Edited by Selfish, 19 March 2013 - 10:03 PM.

[Deathlike]

Selfish, on 19 March 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

On another note unrelated to crits, the Flamer received a bit of a buff. Its heat addition was bumped from .6->1.4, and its heat generation from .6->1.2.

I await the troll builds to be @ full blast from this news.

[Kmieciu]

Deathlike, on 19 March 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

I await the troll builds to be @ full blast from this news.

How about 2xGauss+ 2xFlamers in a K2?

[Selfish]

Bump for visibility. So far not too much has changed. I'm still working on a way to incorporate the LB10X into the OHKO rubric, and may just post it without. In the meantime, get your crits on!

[Sub5even]

Hy Guys,

one short question:

Every Ammo currently has 10 HP.
E.g. Ultra AC5 Ammo explodes for 5 dmg.
Therefore I would assume that Ammo is perfect for crit buffering. Because in my example it "absorbs" 10 DMG and only deals 5 if it gets destroyed.

Is that correct or did it get anything wrong here?

Greetings

[Deathlike]

Only Gauss Ammo is good for crit buffering... for the Gauss Rifle.

[Deathlike]

Lost an added HS (DHS) in the engine again... on an Atlas. I wonder if it is a result of the engine loss, or if it is a result of "hidden buffering". I only lost 1 DHS, not all the external HS I added (which was 3 at the time)...

Someone would have to test this thoroughly with the lame MGs to see how this actually works...

[Selfish]

Deathlike, on 31 March 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Lost an added HS (DHS) in the engine again... on an Atlas. I wonder if it is a result of the engine loss, or if it is a result of "hidden buffering". I only lost 1 DHS, not all the external HS I added (which was 3 at the time)...

Someone would have to test this thoroughly with the lame MGs to see how this actually works...

Should be 'simple' enough to test. The premise is that the engine is destructible, and as far as I know it always has been. The goal would be determining if it's destroying HS with the engine or separately/together after/before. If you want to do it yourself you can remove all the armor on your rear CT (so you can still cautiously play the game after the test), and then use 1 MG to strike at an engine with 2 DHS stored in it. Have the person being struck record their HS loadout to see if they lose one DHS before the other. MGs deal fairly consistent damage and conform to the defensive % of each item more regularly than the more chaotic burst weapons. If it's a possibility to destroy the HS separately they will drop at different times, but they will still be exceedingly close together.

This doesn't answer the question of whether or not you've destroyed the engine first, at the same time, or after. This is where you'd leverage the known crit rates/averages of the MG. As long as the CT is just the engine with innate heatsinks the single MG will crit it out, on average, in ~2.85 seconds. If it takes you significantly longer than that to crit out HS then they could be an additional buffer to strike after the engine is destroyed. If they fall significantly before that, then they might be crit through, or competing with, the destruction of the engine. If they fall as expected, then it's likely they're linked to the engine. If they seem close, but the heatsinks seem to cascade, then it may even be possible their crit sizes are affecting the rolls even though they're stored in a stacked slot. You'd need to switch over to single heatsinks to see if it lengthens the time to crit on each HS--it would drastically lengthen the time to crit them if this is the case.

[Deathlike]

Well, I asked the question in the Ask the Devs section, and hopefully we'll get a direct answer to it.

[ElLocoMarko]

Let's re-pin this. It is too good.

[Selfish]

It looks like Kmieciu was right about the 10% ammo explosion. ATD35 has answered the question directly. Ammo explosions are triggered through two means. One is critically destroying a ton of ammo, and the other is destroying the component it is housed in. Both have a 10% chance to detonate any remaining ammo. The big exception to this is that if an arm storing ammo is lost because of a side torso being destroyed it won't cause an explosion roll. I added the information to the stock info before ammo transfers are explained. It's possible this was a recent change that was stealthed in with the crit-seeker additions. It's entirely anecdotal, but I found ammo explosions to be much more common before that patch rolled in.

Another interesting tidbit is that it DOES look like engine stored HS are factoring into CT crit rolls, and may even be doing so with their original crit size despite being stored in a 'container'. Kong did some testing that was useful for determining this. Keep in mind their conclusion that the engine can't be crit is probably incorrect, and that the test was using the old (insanely effective crit rate) MG. The HS cascade in destruction, and push the TTC on the Mlas up by a massive amount. So it's likely to believe that stored HS will be in the crit table, but whether or not that's after, during or before the engine is destroyed is still up in the air. Still pretty interesting, as in the case of the Atlas this changed its 15 HP engine (6/8 slot) buffer for whatever was stored in its CT into a 55 HP (?18/20?) buffer.

Edited by Selfish, 08 April 2013 - 10:57 PM.

[Deathlike]

Selfish, on 08 April 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

Another interesting tidbit is that it DOES look like engine stored HS are factoring into CT crit rolls, and may even be doing so with their original crit size despite being stored in a 'container'. Kong did some testing that was useful for determining this. Keep in mind their conclusion that the engine can't be crit is probably incorrect, and that the test was using the old (insanely effective crit rate) MG. The HS cascade in destruction, and push the TTC on the Mlas up by a massive amount. So it's likely to believe that stored HS will be in the crit table, but whether or not that's after, during or before the engine is destroyed is still up in the air. Still pretty interesting, as in the case of the Atlas this changed its 15 HP engine (6/8 slot) buffer for whatever was stored in its CT into a 55 HP (?18/20?) buffer.

In the video description, 4 added engine DHS was added into the engine. DHS is 10 HP, so when you add 4 DHS.. this is 40 HP and when added to the engine HP (15 HP), it becomes 55 HP.

I'd still ask the devs about that. I think the "future" mechanic with respect to "MGs" and other crit dealing weapons is that you can core a mech through the engine, and that adding any sort of HS in the engine (275 engine or better) will allow you to survive longer.

[Kmieciu]

Would you kindly update this picture:


We now know for sure that ammo explosion chance is 10%. There should also be a mention about Gauss rifle explosion chance.

[boling]

i cant seem to find were to play the game

[Selfish]

boling, on 11 April 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

i cant seem to find were to play the game

Hey boling. If you scroll to the top of the page and look all the way to the right there should be a blue button titled "Download Now!". If the client is already downloaded and installed, you need to find it on your computer and click on it. If you don't remember where you put it, you can always open your start menu and type MWOclient in the search bar. It should find it for you. Then you run the client, go through any patching, and enter the game menu. You'll need to select a mech in the mechlab, and then press play in the upper right of the menu to find a game. It'll load the game from there.

[Selfish]

Kmieciu, on 11 April 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Would you kindly update this picture:

We now know for sure that ammo explosion chance is 10%. There should also be a mention about Gauss rifle explosion chance.

I think the last time I updated it was the AC/20 HP buff. I actually removed the GR explosion chance from it. The biggest problem is that there isn't a lot of room on it, and I didn't want it to be cluttered with the exceptions.

[MustrumRidcully]

So, reading all this, do people like the crit system?
http://mwomercs.com/...cal-hit-system/

[Selfish]

Just a quick bump to keep the guide visible. The past couple patches haven't had any real impact on the crit system. I updated the discussion on Damage v. Crits a bit to accurately reflect the ammo destruction information, as well as added the quote to the source/body of known information.

[Keifomofutu]

Just one question. Are you sure a 3x crit will potentially apply to more than one item a hit? Because I can't recall ever seeing multiple items knocked out from one hit of something like an ac20 or gauss.