219 replies to this topic

[Selfish]

Gonna bump this back to the front page for visibility. Not much has changed in the past few patches, but the upcoming damage rework on some weapons will tweak things a bit. I'll make sure to update the guide as necessary.

[BoPop]

TY OP!

[BoPop]

i vote for sticky hehe

[MustrumRidcully]

Oh yes, this needs to be stickied. Unless the devs plan a big revamp.

[Aleric]

Thontor, on 04 May 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

Yes, but remember they are very rare, only 3% chance

Happened to me Twice tonight in two matches. One shot Gauss gone, second shot PPC gone. Next Match, One shot Gauss gone, next shot PPC gone, both very long range hits while I was MOVING in a Cata at 66 speed.

[Selfish]

Gotta love patches! This time the Machine Gun received a lot of love on the critical front (unless they tweaked the RAWs, which I haven't seen yet). Its critical potential has been doubled, while the chance of critting has been slightly reduced. Doesn't matter, still buffed. Its average critical DPS is now 9.5. The highest of any weapon in the game, and near its old "broken" value. You should expect MGs in groups of 2-4 to be able to clean out some items in an expedient manner.

It'll take me a few days to revise my guide to reflect everything. Going to be adding an explosion damage chart, and trying to tidy up the general information a bit to be more digestible at the front end. I also need to update the crit charts to be in line with the new refire/damage/crit chance values.

[Doelloos Verdwaald]

Awesome post, thanks!

I find it a great system but only half implemented. If the devs flesh out the crit system more it will be a great boon to MWO. This post is a great education for new players like me. Hopefully more people will use it as a reference in the current machine gun discussion.

[Kmieciu]

Bump.

[MaddMaxx]

Just a note of interest. C.A.S.E. has no Health, so no chance to be destroyed critically. It goes away with the component/section it is located in.

Module id="9003" name="CASE" CType="CCASEStats"
ModuleStats slots="1" tons="0.5" health="0"

Edited by MaddMaxx, 27 May 2013 - 05:08 AM.

[Selfish]

MaddMaxx, on 27 May 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

Just a note of interest. C.A.S.E. has no Health, so no chance to be destroyed critically. It goes away with the component/section it is located in.

Module id="9003" name="CASE" CType="CCASEStats" ModuleStats slots="1" tons="0.5" health="0"["]

Awesome stuff. I've updated the guide accordingly (as well as some number tweaks, and revised all the charts to be in line with the latest changes). I feel like the intro is getting clunky. I'm considering moving all the quotes to the bottom as an appendix, and making a better structured primer on crits/explosions/transfers.

[Selfish]

Bump!

[Selfish]

I've updated some of the recent patch notes, but still need to update the charts. Replacing these graphics over and over is just tedious sometimes. Not much is really different with the crit world other than MGs getting better. They've increased to 11.875 critical DPS, or 1.1875 average crit damage per bullet. When massed, these will take out stuffed components in mere seconds. Just be careful, everyone even slightly larger than you will easily just kill you in that time frame--and it's not like the spread on MGs makes them manageable enough to land every shot.

For conjecture, I do feel like ammo explosion rate has increased. Note feel. Totally anecdotal here.

[Selfish]

I'm seeing a few crit questions popping up again. Bumping this for visibility.

[Selfish]

Big changes for crits are coming up. It appears the devs want to try and deal a % of all critical damage done back into the internal structure of the component.

For example (and with hypothetical 10% transfer rate): Let's say your 4x MG (4 DPS, ~47.5 CDPS) spider attacks an opponent's exposed CT. Instead of dealing just 4 DPS and shredding everything in the component near instantly, you're going to do all of that with ~8.75 DPS!

[Selfish]

Latest news, the crit transfer is now live and my ultra conservative example of 10% was proven wrong by the devs. They went for 15%! I've updated some old charts, altered some discussion points slightly, and added the critical damage transfer to the source material. Mostly superficial stuff before I tackle the big issue of writing some new sections/editing old ones.

This is a big change, and I'm going to be adding/removing some sections quite a bit to make it more manageable. I'm also working on a more manageable 'release' of the guide for visibility outside of the forums.

[stjobe]

You're probably aware of this, but the damage values are off on the MG; it has a crit damage multiplier of 12.5, so the damage is
1 crit: 1.25
2 crits: 2.5
3 crits: 3.75

I've detailed the math elsewhere, but the new 15% damage to internals mechanic works out to roughly 3 DPS vs Internal Structure for a single MG. It also does 11 DPS vs internal components.

Edited by stjobe, 09 August 2013 - 05:15 AM.

[Selfish]

stjobe, on 09 August 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

You're probably aware of this, but the damage values are off on the MG; it has a crit damage multiplier of 12.5, so the damage is
1 crit: 1.25
2 crits: 2.5
3 crits: 3.75

I've detailed the math elsewhere, but the new 15% damage to internals mechanic works out to roughly 3 DPS vs Internal Structure for a single MG. It also does 11 DPS vs internal components.

Ah, I see where you're talking about. I'll update it. I've been using the correct values/math on the chart. Thanks for the heads up!

[stjobe]

Selfish, on 09 August 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Ah, I see where you're talking about. I'll update it. I've been using the correct values/math on the chart. Thanks for the heads up!

No worries, I've linked to this thread numerous times because it is a very good primer on crits.

However, since Tuesday's patch I think you're going to have to talk a bit about internal structure damage as well:

Prior to the patch the MG didn't do any extra damage to internal structure, it had the same 1 DPS as it had against armour. After the patch it suddenly does 3 DPS versus IS - a 300% increase.

This all of a sudden makes the MG deadly, especially in quad- or hexa-mounts. A quad-MG SDR-5K, for instance, is fully capable of destroying 'mechs in seconds once the armour is breached, with 12 DPS done to the internal structure. It will also instantly destroy any components, doing 44 DPS to them(!).

Quite a dramatic change for the gun that was the red-headed step-child of the ballistic line for over a year, wouldn't you say?

[Selfish]

stjobe, on 09 August 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

No worries, I've linked to this thread numerous times because it is a very good primer on crits.

However, since Tuesday's patch I think you're going to have to talk a bit about internal structure damage as well:

Prior to the patch the MG didn't do any extra damage to internal structure, it had the same 1 DPS as it had against armour. After the patch it suddenly does 3 DPS versus IS - a 300% increase.

This all of a sudden makes the MG deadly, especially in quad- or hexa-mounts. A quad-MG SDR-5K, for instance, is fully capable of destroying 'mechs in seconds once the armour is breached, with 12 DPS done to the internal structure. It will also instantly destroy any components, doing 44 DPS to them(!).

Quite a dramatic change for the gun that was the red-headed step-child of the ballistic line for over a year, wouldn't you say?

It's quite dramatic. Each MG has about 2.78 DPS when hitting IS, though their ability to crit remains the same. The major reason I'm waiting on updating is that the patch is still very fresh, and I have to rearrange some sections/create new charts. I already have the math worked out for avg. crit transfer DPS of weapons, with scales of burst weapons crit ranges. Just need to find a good way to present the information clearly before I move it over.

[stjobe]

Selfish, on 09 August 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

It's quite dramatic. Each MG has about 2.78 DPS when hitting IS, though their ability to crit remains the same. The major reason I'm waiting on updating is that the patch is still very fresh, and I have to rearrange some sections/create new charts. I already have the math worked out for avg. crit transfer DPS of weapons, with scales of burst weapons crit ranges. Just need to find a good way to present the information clearly before I move it over.

Another thing is that we (or at least I) don't quite know exactly how the crit system works. I'm thinking of crits on a component-empty armour-stripped location - does that still do extra damage to the IS, or does it not since the extra IS damage is based on crit damage and there's nothing to apply that crit damage to?

And indestructible components like actuators, gyro, and engine; do they make a difference? If crits only apply damage to IS if there's something to apply crit damage to, do these components give "infinite" amounts of crit damage applied to IS (or at least until the IS is gone) since they cannot be destroyed?

Questions, questions