219 replies to this topic

[Selfish]

Fais, on 10 December 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Do you people agree that the following qoute is correct? I would like to see some in game testing to confirm this. I was defintly under the impression until now that when your engine had recieved 100% critical damage that your mech was destroyed.

"Critical damage to the side torso hit boxes of XL engines deals damage to the engine as a whole. However, it should be noted that, currently, critical damage to your engine will not disable it, but simply add to your repair bill. This is likely to change when we do the pass on the health values."

The Dev statement should be the case. If it destroyed your mech you would see destructions without the removal of components, since all it takes is a 1x crit from a gauss rifle or AC/20 to destroy the entire engine. I know the previous patch had an issue with the paper doll updating once someone had received fatal damage. It made it appear like people were dying before they were cored, but they just weren't seeing the damage that was done to kill them. Other than that limited period, I haven't seen people dying in this way.

[Kmieciu]

Selfish, on 09 December 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

The engine has 15 HP. Once that 15 HP is gone, the item is destroyed but not disabled. At the moment this has no effect on gameplay. It doesn't "core" you if it's destroyed by critical hits. It's just a broken item you need to repair at the end of the game.

Except that you don`t need to repair the engine at all :-) I`ve been saving money that way since open beta, and I have NEVER, ever died with without loosing my internals first. And I should know, because I died 119 times since then :-)


http://youtu.be/7phTPTbt2j0

If I`m not mistaken, the Hunchback had an ammo explosion as well?

This is an even better example: http://www.youtube.c...qD78F1GQ#t=112s
Looks like somebody put their Streak ammo close to their launchers :-)

Edited by Kmieciu, 11 December 2012 - 04:18 AM.

[Selfish]

Kmieciu, on 11 December 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

Except that you don`t need to repair the engine at all :-) I`ve been saving money that way since open beta, and I have NEVER, ever died with without loosing my internals first. And I should know, because I died 119 times since then :-)


http://youtu.be/7phTPTbt2j0

If I`m not mistaken, the Hunchback had an ammo explosion as well?

This is an even better example: http://www.youtube.c...qD78F1GQ#t=112s
Looks like somebody put their Streak ammo close to their launchers :-)

Haha. I'd run that way too, but the constant OK/WARNING check boxes when you ready up/launch get on my nerves.

I think the Hunchback died fair and square. I popped his side torso and then sent 20 damage into his center. He was in a bad place before I even put shots into him.

I'll add the video!

[Uridan]

Thanks for the good read. I am a new player and was hoping to find an answer to my question about how crits work. But there is still a question unanswered: I get critically hit even thou my armor is doing fine on all parts. I have that red "critical damage" (or whatever) sign blinking and distracting, but checking my paperdoll i should do fine, still thinking i should do something against it, or i gonna die??

[Stoicblitzer]

Let me say this is a very unselfish post by you selfish. I have never really thought much about critical hits and this guide should make me and others better players. I had a few questions. Do we know how much HP every components internal structure has? I have heard some people say there is 18 HP for the head component so two AC/20s to the noggin will strip off all 18 AP and 18 HP resulting in a headshot kill. Does every component have 18 HP or just the head? All damage from ammo/Gauss explosions is transferred inwards according to the devs. Therefore the damage transfer is leg/arm->side torso->center torso. Head is independent of the dmg transfer, right? Damage will never be transferred from side torso to arm/leg? Also is all damage from an ammo/Gauss explosion only transferred to the internal structure of the next component? In other words, does amount of armor on that next component not matter?

Can we analyze what happened in this video? http://youtu.be/6TaqD78F1GQ?t=1m45s

They targeted his left torso which contained his SSRM2s. Did he also have his SSRM ammo in that torso? Sean thought they destroyed that left torso when one of his SSRM2s was destroyed so does that mean they scored a crit on it? Then they critted one of his SSRM2 ammo slots and all of that damage destroyed his left torso and then the armor on his center torso was ignored as the damage transferred to his center torso's internal structure or did it strip the remaining armor and then destroy his CT? Is this what happened?

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 12 December 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[Kmieciu]

Stoicblitzer, on 12 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

They targeted his left torso which contained his SSRM2s. Did he also have his SSRM ammo in that torso? Sean thought they destroyed that left torso when one of his SSRM2s was destroyed so does that mean they scored a crit on it? Then they critted one of his SSRM2 ammo slots and all of that damage destroyed his left torso and then the armor on his center torso was ignored as the damage transferred to his center torso's internal structure or did it strip the remaining armor and then destroy his CT? Is this what happened?

I pity the fool who puts his ammo where his launchers are :-) One tonne of Streak ammo means 100*2.5 = 250 internal damage. Even if the damage is halved while being transferred to another component, on tonne of SRM ammo is enough to blow up both side and center torso. And since it`s an internal explosion, it ignores the armor. If you absolutely have to store the ammo in a side torso, make sure you`ve got CASE. But I always prefer to fill legs and head with ammo and only use center torso for ammo storage on LRM boats. By the time the enemies close the distance, I`ll already used all the ammo stored there.

Stoicblitzer, on 12 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

Damage will never be transferred from side torso to arm

If you loose the side torso the arm is automatically destroyed.

Stoicblitzer, on 12 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

I have heard some people say there is 18 HP for the head component so two AC/20s to the noggin will strip off all 18 AP and 18 HP resulting in a headshot kill. Does every component have 18 HP or just the head?

Not the head, the cockpit. It has 15 HP, and up to 18 AP on every mech. I`ve killed a undamaged Awesome with a 2xGauss+small laser shot (2x15+3=33 damage). Also I`ve been killed by a double Gauss shot while having 15HP+14 AP = 29 points.

As for the other components you can calculate the HP by dividing MAX_TOTAL_ARMOR /2. For example an Atlas has 124 points of max total armor in the center torso, that means 124/2 = 62 points of internal HP. A Commando has 32/2 = 16. Yesterday a teammate in a Cataphract killed me, by accident, with double Gauss in the back. (damn those long monkey arms). And I use 12 points of rear armor (16+12<2x15).

The lack of engine critical hits is the reason the Atlas is so powerful right now. Even if you strip it`s armor, it takes 5 Gauss shots to the center torso to disable it. With engine critical hits implemented with the current rules, there would be a 42% chance of killing it with ONE Gauss shot to the internals (assuming it has only the engine in the center torso)

Edited by Kmieciu, 13 December 2012 - 12:07 AM.

[Jacek Owens]

For your next article I request:

"An in-depth analysis on armor distribution dependent on hitbox sizes, weapon hard-points and ammo locations."

This should cover all mech classes and chassis types. It should include tips on rear armor, specific chassis characteristics, such as the redundant arm on a Centurion, which lend themselves to atypical armor distributions and a section detailing the pros and cons of the Ferro-fibrous upgrade...

Thanx...

Someone needs to do it.. I can't write it as I'm illierate <- see....

Edited by Jacek Owens, 13 December 2012 - 07:55 AM.

[rastal66]

Was running my CTF-1X last night and was somewhat torn up and came up 1v1 against an atlas that was relatively unharmed minus a leg that was stripped of armor. Was not liking my odds but Jooky happened to be spectating and pressed me to hammer the leg in an attempt to find LRM ammo. Normally I would be wanting to start sinking damage into the torso to bring down that leviathan as soon as possible, but it turned out he did indeed have his ammo in his sock and it lit him up like a christmas tree. Put him on death's door and some medium lasers ushered him through it the rest of the way. Did not realize legs were the last on the ammo feed chain... will have to reevaluate ammo placement on my own mechs.

[rastal66]

Also, I remember when they introduced endo-steel etc and the dynamic structure slots. I wondered if these could be crit... they cannot, but if it were to happen I imagine the mech would just fall to its knees, its mouth open in a silent scream- tears streaming down its cockpit, paralyzed. Getting shot in the endo-steel is what nightmares are made of.

[Stoicblitzer]

Thanks, Kmieciu!

[Selfish]

Uridan, on 12 December 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

Thanks for the good read. I am a new player and was hoping to find an answer to my question about how crits work. But there is still a question unanswered: I get critically hit even thou my armor is doing fine on all parts. I have that red "critical damage" (or whatever) sign blinking and distracting, but checking my paperdoll i should do fine, still thinking i should do something against it, or i gonna die??

That's actually something I'm not sure about (and have seen). I've definitely gone critical before losing all my armor in several iterations. I'm not sure if it's a glitch in damage reporting (on the paperdoll) and you're stripped but not showing it, or the alarm goes off before you can really be crit. I honestly don't know! I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just keep in mind which bits of your armor are heavily damaged and make sure to protect it if it's housing important stuff.

[Selfish]

I edited the formatting a bit, and removed references to repair/rearm since it is no longer relevant. Should be adding some more footage, and am considering some helpful picture guides/flowcharts to make concepts more clear.

Also, bump!

Edited by Selfish, 28 December 2012 - 10:06 PM.

[Rashhaverak]

Excellent read, sir. Really useful in defining how better mechlab effort can improve your actual in-battle performance.

[Fallout23]

Can ECM or beagle be critted? Not sure I've ever seen my ECM go boom. If not, does that also mean there's no roll for them either? For example, if I put a ac/20 and an ECM in a torso, does the ac/20 take 100% of the crits in that section?

[Selfish]

Fallout23, on 31 December 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Can ECM or beagle be critted? Not sure I've ever seen my ECM go boom. If not, does that also mean there's no roll for them either? For example, if I put a ac/20 and an ECM in a torso, does the ac/20 take 100% of the crits in that section?

I'm not entirely sure. I haven't officially tested this, and haven't found anyone claiming to have knowledge of it.

Has anyone lost their component they stored ECM in and lost ECM functionality? If you can lose the physical item but not the functionality then the equipment is probably not rolled on. The ECM DDC would be the best candidate for testing because of its beefy internal HP (gives you more attempts to crit). Unarmor the component. Unslot everything but the ECM. Have a friend hit you with PPCs or AC/10's sequentially until the item goes. Repeat a couple times to make sure you aren't receiving false negatives.

Edited by Selfish, 01 January 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[OPLoN]

Suberb Guide ...
Well written , deep research , critical info !
Definately in my bookmarks .

This needs to be pinned down imho
+10 Kudos

[Selfish]

Special Request: Is anyone out there capable of determining the effectiveness of crits versus a range of Item HP (3->5->10->15)? I'm looking to understand the approach to ballistics in terms of critseeking, and creating a measurable "crit stat" or understanding is part of that. I have R, but am woefully incompetent in terms of the rather simple math and sequential probability functions required.

Of note: I've heard several item destruction reports of ammo that has been used. This may indicate that fully depleted ammo stacks still inhabits crit rolls, but when critically struck deal 0 damage. This would imply that ammo stored in high value areas, if used quick enough, could create sensible buffer against attacks.

[BerryChunks]

god. Neuter gauss rifle criticals?

wtf is the point of weapons then? They're ruining this game by trying to make it "carebear Halo Speed Brawler Online".

You sacrifice 15 tons without even including ammo, and it's a giant weapon easy to get critted and lose, and they wanna take the venom from the snake...

Edited by BerryChunks, 11 January 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[Selfish]

BerryChunks, on 11 January 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

god. Neuter gauss rifle criticals?

wtf is the point of weapons then? They're ruining this game by trying to make it "carebear Halo Speed Brawler Online".

You sacrifice 15 tons without even including ammo, and it's a giant weapon easy to get critted and lose, and they wanna take the venom from the snake...

Eh? Gauss is still leagues ahead of its Gauss variant in the TT. Only in MWO it hasn't assumed a minimum range (like the PPC), it doesn't blow up for massive damage anymore (armor was doubled/internals increased), and it's fantastically more ammo efficient. The gun is fine if you don't plan on taking it into a brawl, which was its main use prior to the fix. The venom is still there, but it seems a lot of people didn't actually like sniping. They were just abusing the most powerful weapon of the time in as large a quantity as possible.

EDIT: Forgot to add that only the Gauss Rifle and AC/20 can critically destroy an engine in one hit--with just the most basic crit type. While this doesn't have an effect yet, it will in the future. The gauss still crits 10 HP items in one hit, and it has a faster refire than the 20 with MUCH better range. It's a really deadly sniper weapon, and a very decent crit-seeker.

Edited by Selfish, 12 January 2013 - 12:44 AM.

[BerryChunks]

I'd like to say that they should've gone with Mw3 mechlab in how it showed how many critical slots were available vs how much was taken by "modular armor". It's annoying to hunt through "dynamically allocated armor" to find stuff or figure out how many "real" free slots I have left.

They should have one person dedicated to fixing mech lab into a more UI friendly mechlab, who can then be turned onto dedicated other projects once mechlab is perfect.