12 replies to this topic

[Hatachi]

I may be wrong here, and I really want to have someone prove me wrong, but why would you take an ECM Scout Commando over a Raven/Cicada. On the same note, why would take an Awesome when I can take an Atlas. I just don't see it being capable of doing a role that couldn't be filled by another mech. Either heavier Lasers/PPCs on an Atlas, or Lighter/Faster PPCs on an a K2/ Cataphract. I'm not wanting to complain. I just want someone to give me an idea beyond aesthetics or or love of a certain mech regardless of viablity. What could be done to make them more useful? Will we only see them used when the ELO system is added in?

[Viper69]

Price? not everyone can afford a 7mil to start with cicada or a 13mil+ atlas.

[Stormur Herra]

Hatachi, on 07 December 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

I may be wrong here, and I really want to have someone prove me wrong, but why would you take an ECM Scout Commando over a Raven/Cicada.

Because I can't afford the 5.7m C-Bills I need to replace my Raven's engine with something useable and I already had a fully fitted out Commando that I just had to strip the BAP from to put in ECM.


But yes, the commando remains underpowered. Not in a general sense, but in the sense that there's a mech that's simply better in most ways without any sort of real trade-offs in the same direction. You can't call an Atlas better than a Jenner or vice versa because they play different roles and if played right, either could win. You can call the ECM raven better than the ECM commando.

Edited by Stormur Herra, 07 December 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[Brock7142]

Viper69, on 07 December 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

Price? not everyone can afford a 7mil to start with cicada or a 13mil+ atlas.

$30 is cheaper than a $60 game....

That said, Atlas D-DC with 3 SRMs, 2 Gauss and 2 Medium Lasers with ECM, is the God Mech of this game. Seeing it in almost every game with this EXACT same weapon composition with ECM. I find it pointless anyone would want to play in any other mech, or bring any other mech in.With 8 D-DCs rolling this set-up, you don't even need scout mechs. You just "charge" at the enemy base and pile drive the other 8 mechs.

In 4v4, kind of games where you roll in teams of 4, the team with the most God-Build D-DCs is the team that wins. Why? Becasue they can pile drive all 8 mechs on the enemy team. Just one team of 4 God Build D-DCs are all it takes to garuntee a win after win. I've yet to survive a battle against said god builds. Nor have I seen a battle won when fighting against them.

All it takes is a cut in engine size, and reduce in armor, ever so slightly, and congrats. You've got a God Mech that can solo 3 mechs all on it's own without anykind of help, or support.

[MadPanda]

In theory there are many mechs that are not viable picks. In practice people still pick them because they are comfortable with them over another more viable mech. You may not like that reason, but that's how it goes with humans. Maybe in the future when robots rule the world and they decide to play mechwarrior, they will always pick the most optimal line ups, but for now you got to deal with humans and their "likes" and "feelings".

[Hatachi]

Stormur Herra, on 07 December 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Because I can't afford the 5.7m C-Bills I need to replace my Raven's engine with something useable and I already had a fully fitted out Commando that I just had to strip the BAP from to put in ECM.


But yes, the commando remains underpowered. Not in a general sense, but in the sense that there's a mech that's simply better in most ways without any sort of real trade-offs in the same direction. You can't call an Atlas better than a Jenner or vice versa because they play different roles and if played right, either could win. You can call the ECM raven better than the ECM commando.

That's why I compared various mechs to mechs that do fairly similar roles. I'm not saying I think an ECM Commando/Raven/Cicada are even meant to fill the same role as an ECM Atlas. Personally I find the first 3 to be advanced scouts that can support the main group once combat gets really going, while the Atlas is more of an anchor for the team to gather around.

It's not directly related, but something along the same lines. Do you think Gauss Kitties will still be the leading platform for low end heavy Gauss Rifles/AC20s once the Jagermech comes out? I'm fine with them existing for now as nothing really fits the same role, but I would hate to see a mech where the whole point of the chassis is to be a ballistics platform be sidelined for a design that kind of "fluked" into it. It kind of goes into the whole, I want to see as many mechs viable in competitive play as possible. Maybe further along the line modules will have a larger effect on overall balance? I never even really hear people talk about them at all. Personally, I would like to see modules moved from being a generic system that's universal to having modules be specific to each family of chassis or possibly each variant.

[Jack Corvus]

Ravens are a heck of a lot easier to hit. That right there is a decent reason to play a commando. Ravens are the one light mech that you can reliably hit with AC fire thanks to a much larger silhouette.

[Orzorn]

Commando's can hide behind every mech in the game.

Atlases can't hide behind any mech in the game.

[Hatachi]

*EDIT* Accidental double thread. Could a mod please merge?

Edited by Hatachi, 07 December 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[GatorG]

Brock7142, on 07 December 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

$30 is cheaper than a $60 game....

That said, Atlas D-DC with 3 SRMs, 2 Gauss and 2 Medium Lasers with ECM, is the God Mech of this game. Seeing it in almost every game with this EXACT same weapon composition with ECM. I find it pointless anyone would want to play in any other mech, or bring any other mech in.With 8 D-DCs rolling this set-up, you don't even need scout mechs. You just "charge" at the enemy base and pile drive the other 8 mechs.

In 4v4, kind of games where you roll in teams of 4, the team with the most God-Build D-DCs is the team that wins. Why? Becasue they can pile drive all 8 mechs on the enemy team. Just one team of 4 God Build D-DCs are all it takes to garuntee a win after win. I've yet to survive a battle against said god builds. Nor have I seen a battle won when fighting against them.

All it takes is a cut in engine size, and reduce in armor, ever so slightly, and congrats. You've got a God Mech that can solo 3 mechs all on it's own without anykind of help, or support.

As far as I can tell there is no way for you to survive, or even be in a battle against that mech, no way to get 2 gauss on a D-DC.

[BarHaid]

I've tried both Commando and Raven, and I am MUCH more comfortable in the Commando. It's just more responsive IMO. The lack of an effective arm reticle is what really chafes me on the Raven.

There's just things about some chassis that bug me. The nose on the Dragon, for instance. You would think that he Centurion and Dragon would feel the same to pilot, but I will always choose a Cent over a Dragon. It's a real testament to the Devs that they were able to achieve this game feel.

[Fais]

We have had some pretty balanced groups almost 2/2/2/2 and have won 90% of our 8v8 without using very many ECM mechs at all. We have dominated heavy DDC groups and such. I honestly think it has alot more to do with the pilots and organizations then the mechs right now. If someone is good with a certain mech, they probably should stick with it.

Edited by Fais, 07 December 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[Utilyan]

I took a commando out with 210 standard ecm, beagle, enough room for a small lazer. He's fast, tiny. Faster then a raven, smaller profile then cicada. It will be nicer with a xl. Basicly only die when I choose to with that little fellah.

Easy to run and hide. That first contact of knowing where the enemy is, is very important.

Ecm does a beutiful thing for the commando.......it finally makes a commando a commando. They sopose to be behind enemy lines. They oughta makem all ecm capable.

Im not clear what the future holds in terms of battlefield sizes ect. I think in terms of WWII prioritize on mobility.
Like in a real fight prob leg the atlas and just leave it...... If you can stop the tank thats good enough. Unless theres more dropship involment, depending on how fast or slow dropship system works, then i'd start thinking more like vietnam and huey drops.

For the price of the cheapest atlas you can get 4 commandos. If those 4 fought one atlas my money is on the commandos.



A 78 kph awsome has got to be a bad thing for a reason. Sometimes you need an assault today.