164 replies to this topic

[Odins Fist]

Streeter, on 07 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

Ive got close a few times to that damage. If I out do your 1331 damage in my 35 ton raven, will you concede that perhaps the ECM might need a little looking at?

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LOLZ, Not in the least.... Ravens don't do well, a little too easy to hit compared to a Commando hugging my leg...
So if you think you're ECM is gonna save you from what I have running, then you better be a awesome Raven pilot, because I don't have trouble with Ravens...
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How about a screenshot of a Centurion doing over 1000 damage with 5 kills 2 assists..??

[Streeter]

Odins Fist, on 07 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

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LOLZ, Not in the least.... Ravens don't do well, a little too easy to hit compared to a Commando hugging my leg...
So if you think you're ECM is gonna save you from what I have running, then you better be a awesome Raven pilot, because I don't have trouble with Ravens...
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How about a screenshot of a Centurion doing over 1000 damage with 5 kills 2 assists..??

thats my point, ravens are pretty pathetic and weigh 1/3 your atlas yet Im getting close to your damage amount that you seem so proud of. Doesnt that sound a little strange to you?

[Roland]

Wait.. so you mean you need to choose between taking mechs with better hardpoints, or taking mechs that can pack ECM?

Derp.

[TruePoindexter]

ollo, on 07 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

It's a problem of the chassis, as there are no other hardpoints than missiles. I run a A1 with LRM and SSRM, and there have been games where i was zombied from the start so to say. If you are lucky and the enemy has no ECM or doesn't know how to play and runs off in a moronic direction abandoning his team, then you can actually play the game. If not, well then you are kind of as useful as a rock with legs. That paired with the total randomness of # of ECM per team leads to extremely frustrating matches.

Not every variant can be god's gift to mechdom and given the situation the easier solution would be to drop one of the homing weapons for standard SRMs. Something like 1 LRM 20 5 SRM 6 could be fun.

ollo, on 07 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

You have no chance to really use LRM or SSRM when the enemy outblocks you, so the counter ECM with ECM argument is mute in the current state of matchmaking. And it does make LRM and SSRM them deal less damage, exactly 0 if played right.

So don't rely on those weapons.

I'm not trying to be belittling or anything like that. I'm just saying that you should adapt. In the past LRMs and SSRMs had the luxury of being homing weapons with few downsides. Now there's a big downside - you may not be able to use them reliably. Just like the UAC5 and its jamming you are taking a risk when relying on these weapons.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 07 December 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[Jman5]

People need to take a step back and just give it time. ECM is here to stay and the players will adapt. However it will take some time, which means right now it's going to be painful.

I know personally when I first started using AMS, it felt like a must-have item. I mean why would anyone not use something that reduces missile damage right? Well over time, I got better and better and avoiding LRMs and got to the point where the AMS was just dead weight.

Right now ECM is the latest and greatest feature so everyone and their mom is using it. However, things will settle down and it will eventually be just another useful tool in a mech's belt.

[Mr 144]

Timelordwho, on 07 December 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

ECM is as balanced as Artemis on launch.

And interseting enough, perhaps the sarcasm has merit here I was one of the very few people who didn't mind the pyscho day of LRM godliness. Using skill to dodge, use cover, break locks, etc was interseting. It of course was insta-slammed back into the stone age vis typical PGI over reponse.

I would like to see the 'broken' LRM artemis combo return while ECM is still how it is now. Then perhaps, the tradeoff would make LRMs 'viable' again. If something 'breaks' a weapon system so completely if properly used with tactics, then that weapon system should be so unbeliebaly scary, as to warrant the commitment.

Mr 144

[Odins Fist]

Streeter, on 07 December 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

thats my point, ravens are pretty pathetic and weigh 1/3 your atlas yet Im getting close to your damage amount that you seem so proud of. Doesnt that sound a little strange to you?

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Nope, not a bit, I really don't need to have little red triangles showing were the enemy is on the map, I just look for their (Big or Little) stompy robot running around shooting lasers that are a direct line back to them anyway, then I shoot them..
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Pretty simple really, I shoot what I see, and I don't have to have red indicators (as a crutch) to show me what I need to be doing.
On a side note, if "BOTH" teams have a little "ECM" wouldn't that counter each other if the pilots were "SMART" enough to realize what's going on..?? Maybe not, some people are pretty oblivious to things like their "IMMEDIATE SURROUNDINGS".
LOL
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EDIT: It's not my fault if someone pilots a (LITTLE) mech, I guess they shouldn't have brought a knife to a gun fight huh..?? Their bad luck, not mine.

Edited by Odins Fist, 07 December 2012 - 05:54 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Streeter, on 07 December 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

thats my point, ravens are pretty pathetic and weigh 1/3 your atlas yet Im getting close to your damage amount that you seem so proud of. Doesnt that sound a little strange to you?

I routinely beat the damage output of my fellow Assault mechs in my lighter mechs as well. This has to do with being fast enough to keep in combat for a longer period of time than an Assault who has to waddle up to the firing line and god help you if it keeps moving away because it can take what seems like forever to even start to engage. It has nothing to do with ECM.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 07 December 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[Col Forbin]

STRONG LIKE BEAR, on 07 December 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

love all the kids who are mad they can't press R and know exactly where the enemy team is.

more please.

[REDACTED]

OP, you actually said some intelligent things, and [REDACTED] come out in force.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 09 December 2012 - 10:43 AM.
edited per CoC

[General Taskeen]

Col Forbin, on 07 December 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

[REDACTED]

OP, you actually said some intelligent things, and [REDACTED] come out in force.

Truth +9000

Edited by Prosperity Park, 09 December 2012 - 10:44 AM.
edited quote

[Streeter]

TruePoindexter, on 07 December 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

I routinely beat the damage output of my fellow Assault mechs in my lighter mechs as well. This has to do with being fast enough to keep in combat for a longer period of time than an Assault who has to waddle up to the firing line and god help you if it keeps moving away because it can take what seems like forever to even start to engage. It has nothing to do with ECM.

Im not saying Im awesome, I just find it strange that I could very rarely crack 1000 damage with my lag shield jenner which has more guns and better heat capability.

now Im down 1 laser, a few heat sinks and no jump jets yet am routinely doing better. Perhaps its just me getting better at the game or being very lucky... but if I had to guess I would say it has more to do with the ECM.

also keep in mind that saying an ECM counters an ECM has no bearing on how good it is, cause you have to have it on the other team... which is balance which is my point, OP item balanced by.... oh gee the exact same thing LOL which funnily enough is often how I see matches turn out, team with most ECM wins.

Odins doesnt seem to get it that he first says the Raven is crappy (I agree) yet Im able to do as much damage as his mighty atlas even with his leet targeting skills and no need for HUD. As far as "keep in combat", he got 8 kills that round, I dont think you can really say he had trouble getting to them if he killed ALL of them? LOL

[Asmosis]

When the counter to something being OP is to have the OP thing yourself, thats not good balance.

I've noticed overall everyones damage has dropped significantly (all players, both sides, regardless of teams). Its very rare to see someone crack 800dmg now when it used to happen every match.

Edited by Asmosis, 07 December 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

Odins Fist, on 07 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

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Wait a minute "KID", you said "ANY" Mech without ECM is "SECOND CLASS" at best..??
I'm here to tell you that you are "WRONG", look at the score again, and tell me how you think "8" kills and 1331 damage is in anyway second class..??
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I "ROUTINELY" get more 4 or more kills a match "WITHOUT" ECM, or LRMs, or "ANY" module equiped...
So tell me again how "ECM" is "OP"..??

There is more to game balance than your personal kill score. If Gauss Rifle did 50 damage per shot, it would still be possible to get a good score without using one. Not to mention there is a big different between playing in pug drops versus 8v8 premades.

TL;DR: Lrn2Think objectively.

Edited by Eldragon, 07 December 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[The Shredder]

Love your post.
LRMs were already pretty useless if you PUG play. With people shooting each other, without locking on, it meant that the LRM mechs needs to aquire a line of sight to the target in order to get the locks.
On top of that, LRMs constantly end up without proper support in PUG play. Scouts will run around, but rarely hold a target long enough. I understand that if you see them, they can see you, but for a bunch of people posting Lrn2Play, they sure aren't really using the scout mechs as described in canon. They either wolf pack them, or do base captures. Niether offers any help to the heavier mechs fielded.
The Catapults being loaded with Streak SRMs or SRM 6's were breaking the game a bit, no doubt there. Having ECM counter them makes sense. But currently it counters everybody. Those of us that spent quite a bit upgrading our founder's Catapults are left with a mech that never leaves the bay. In the Lore, the Catapult was designed for Long Range Fire Support. So, equiping short range missiles really goes against the design of the mech.
And the Atlas' that load the twin LRM 20s, to fire 40 missiles, five missiles at a time... No weapon works like that in the real world. If a launcher has five tubes, it launches five missiles. Then reloads. So the fix here would be only allowing the mech to arm an LRM 5.
If they simply correct a few little things to bring the mechs more in line with Lore, it would actually fix quite a few issues that people sign into the forum to complain about. Currently, it just seems as if the Devs are out to punish LRM boats. Which you have to ask "Why put them in the game in the first place?"
When I first saw trailers for this game, I was excited for the Catapult. I liked the idea that we would now have the ability to fire over objects, unlike past MW games. So I have to believe that are going to be making this system better. We want layered strategy, not the need to counter 8 different devices to hit someone with a missile salvo.
Next up, they should introduce the Advanced Gyro upgrade, which would counter the effectiveness of the above-mentioned Atlas.

Before people start ripping into me, stop to think a moment. Do you want another MMO that encourages everyone to build their characters the same way, or do you want MechWarrior, where even the slowest Urban Mech can topple an Atlas, if luck and skill are on your side?
Right now the only weapons that are worth their weight are the AutoCannons. But, this being Beta, and PGI being such fans of this franchise, we can hold on to the idea of them doing it justice.

[Odins Fist]

Streeter, on 07 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Odin doesnt seem to get it that he first says the Raven is crappy (I agree) yet Im able to do as much damage as his mighty atlas even with his leet targeting skills and no need for HUD. As far as "keep in combat", he got 8 kills that round, I dont think you can really say he had trouble getting to them if he killed ALL of them? LOL

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No trouble at all... Although I did have a Commando try to core me from the back, I clipped him with some lasers, and as he ran away (but gave me an opening to shoot), I nailed him with a Gauss he went bye bye... I had no Idea he was there until he hit me, but I wasn't mad...
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ECM doesn't really affect my gameplay style, but I could see how it would make other people foam at the mouth, unable to adapt to the battlefield...

[Rhent]

Smeghead87, on 07 December 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

I don't know if everyone that's calling for ECM nerf is just playing 8v8 but I'm seeing less and less ECM in pug games with each passing day. Played about 5 games tonight without a single ECM present.
Even when it does appear, it isn't a game changer, had wins without any ECM on my team and the enemy had it.
Had losses when we had the ECM advantage.
It doesn't trump good piloting in my opinion.

Huh, I play PUG's and they routinely have 1 to 3 ECM's in my match. In the runs when I don't have ECM and the opposing team has 3 ECM's, lets just say they have a marked advantage.

Piloting in the game is non-existent. You can run a Light mech at 134KPH + ECM and you can dance around a heavy while they try to land a single shot, which they can't. I routinely destroy heavies and assaults in my ECM Cicada 3M because they can't hit me with Streaks. ECM is possibly the most overpowered and poorly thought out design decision I've seen in an Online Game since 1992. KUDO's to Pirahna's game designers.

[Odins Fist]

Eldragon, on 07 December 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

There is more to game balance than your personal kill score. If Gauss Rifle did 50 damage per shot, it would still be possible to get a good score without using one. Not to mention there is a big different between playing in pug drops versus 8v8 premades.

TL;DR: Lrn2Think objectively.

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Your point is...??
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Anyway it's been fun, time to do something else... BUH BYE..

Edited by Odins Fist, 07 December 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[Streeter]

Odins Fist, on 07 December 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

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Your point is...??
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Anyway it's been fun, time to do something else... BUH BYE..

the fact you can get a lot of damage out and make kills doesnt mean the ECM is not OP. Not sure if trolling or really that thick?

[TruePoindexter]

Streeter, on 07 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Im not saying Im awesome, I just find it strange that I could very rarely crack 1000 damage with my lag shield jenner which has more guns and better heat capability.

now Im down 1 laser, a few heat sinks and no jump jets yet am routinely doing better. Perhaps its just me getting better at the game or being very lucky... but if I had to guess I would say it has more to do with the ECM.

ECM mechs play different due to the different mindset. In many regard this is superior to the typical Jenner who runs in and shoot everything that moves. You have to be deliberate in your movement and rely on fellow teammates to deal the knockout punch/shield you from too much focus fire. As an experiment try to Jenner but play as if you were in your Raven.

Streeter, on 07 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

also keep in mind that saying an ECM counters an ECM has no bearing on how good it is, cause you have to have it on the other team... which is balance which is my point, OP item balanced by.... oh gee the exact same thing LOL which funnily enough is often how I see matches turn out, team with most ECM wins.

Experience and records at least for me show this isn't the case. ECM disrupts targeting and missile locks - it doesn't stop me and my team from shooting the snot out of the enemy. When we're dropping 4 mans or less we often don't have ECM ourselves and lack any on our team - we do just fine. Communication negates much of the effect of ECM when you can just say "Atlas in D3."

Streeter, on 07 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Odins doesnt seem to get it that he first says the Raven is crappy (I agree) yet Im able to do as much damage as his mighty atlas even with his leet targeting skills and no need for HUD. As far as "keep in combat", he got 8 kills that round, I dont think you can really say he had trouble getting to them if he killed ALL of them? LOL

The Raven isn't crappy - it's just under armed in comparison to the Jenner. Odin's example list what can happen when any mech is in their optimal position. Surround that same Atlas with some fast hard hitting heavies/mediums and the story will be very different.

[Adeptus Odren]

Just my two cents.

In my opinion, ECM isn't overpowered. The main problem is that light/medium scouts insist on diving into enemy ranks rather than staying on the outskirts and spotting for their team. If those scouts would just stay far away and hit the R key, then their team will be able to fire off their lrms and will be able to see the enemy mechs on their battlegrid. So don't blame ECM, blame the scouts for wanting to mix it up instead of doing their primary job - scouting not melee.

P.S. I used ECM once, tossed it out. Need that extra heatsink more.