12 replies to this topic

[topgun505]

So I was in a game on Caustic ... scouting as usual ... swung around the flank in behind them and reported back to command....

"Ok I see .... one ... two ... four ... uh ... SIX Atlas ..... and two Raven ..."

And this isn't the first time. I have been on the fence since the patch in regards to several topics:

ECM stacking (where the more units you have running it, the more it counters)
ECM being available on the Atlas
Matchmaker not matching weight classes any longer

I'm seeing more and more of the above team makeups. Right now the environment really doesn't lend itself to anything but Raven/Cicada/Atlas teams.

When you run such a team ,if you run up against a team who doesn't use SSRMs or LRMs great ... you can stand up against it fine in a pretty much normal match ... you only wasted 1.5 tons putting ECM on each mech so you aren't down by much. If you DO run up against a team who rely on even a fraction of their damage output being based on such systems then you start with a pretty good leg up.

That + the fact that you can take as many Atlas as you want is kind of a having your cake and eating it too scenario. There really is no incentive to take anything else. You can set up some Atlas for long range and some as brawlers to fill most rolls and the Ravens and Cicadas fill the rest and all of the rest of the mechs available in the game sit and gather dust.

I'm starting to wonder if it was such a good idea to allow ANY of the Atlas to be able to mount ECM. At the very least they probably should either take that away, or re-implement weight matching in the matchmaker.

As for ECM stacking ... that also seems to be encouraging running mass quantities of the ECM lights. I wonder what the impact would be if ECM effects no longer stacked? ECM would still work, still have a place on the battlefield, but now it would not be a major incentive to do a 'flight of the Ravens'.

Thoughts?

[KuruptU4Fun]

Yes those are the min/max groups, lacking in real skill and whose only interest is to max their K/D ratios. Until further changes are made to 8v8 matches they will be an unfortunate part of life.

[Vermaxx]

People wanted a private place for their 8mans. PGI never said they'd be able to give you elo/mech/weight/composition matching in beta.

They gave you a queue where you know you are fighting 8 people brave enough to call themselves a team. That is all you know. They might be 8 fast ECMs rushing for caps. They might be 8 plodding Atlases. They might be 8 gauss mechs of various shape focus firing you without remorse. They might be 7 LRM with a badarse scout.

You go into the queue knowing you are fighting 8 people brave enough to call themselves a team. Beyond that, community warfare might have what you want. This is, after all, a beta intended to flush out the bugs on match-to-match combat before they add all the bells and whistles.

[Jalak Bali]

KuruptU4Fun, on 07 December 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Yes those are the min/max groups, lacking in real skill and whose only interest is to max their K/D ratios. Until further changes are made to 8v8 matches they will be an unfortunate part of life.

Yea, this group who adapted to the current balance to become OP will never figure out what to do when the next balance comes!

On a serious note, ECM stacking and ECM on Atlas is just too much. There's no real reason to bring Assault that is not the D-DC now and there's no reason to bring any light that is not Raven 3L. For balance, I suggest trying to remove the ECM from the Atlas and/or make EECM counters ALL ECM in the bubble range. This way ECM boats will be forced to stay with the herd to provide protection but they must also react to any other EECM coming their way (remember that this brave scout can be targeted with LRMs and Streaks). Currently, a full ECM team have nothing to fear from missiles. With the change, they have to swat the EECM running at them to still be protected. A full ECM team would also mean they have to be all Ravens and Cicadas. ECM as a tactic should be situational. Right now they're the nukes of the game: you must have more than the other guy.

[topgun505]

Yeah that does seem to be the order of the day (needing to have more than the other side)

[p00k]

stacking ecm isn't just about countering lrm's & ssrm's, though that certainly helps
it makes it much harder for teams to focus fire, especially if a battle degrades into a furball
it also makes it much harder for teams to pick components, since you can't tell what someone's armor status is

KuruptU4Fun, on 07 December 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Yes those are the min/max groups, lacking in real skill and whose only interest is to max their K/D ratios. Until further changes are made to 8v8 matches they will be an unfortunate part of life.

lacking in real skill? u jelly?
that's like saying groups use large/medium lasers in all their builds' energy hardpoints are lacking in real skill because they refuse to handicap themselves by carrying large pulses and er ppc's in everything.

right now ecm is a game changer, and not taking it is putting yourself at a handicap. some may find that handicap is worth taking a non-ecm mech that they're just that much better in, but rarely is that the case. whether or not a team has "real skill" has nothing to do with whether or not they stack ecm's. it just means they don't feel like losing because they allowed the other team to take more ecm's than they did

[Gulaschsuppe]

And the worst thing is, they reward these groups. We faced a nearly only Atlas DDC group with our well balanced "2 of every Weight Class group". We played hit and run, killed the 2 Ravens of them and caped them a little. After That they Pulled their 6 remaining Atlas back their base and did nothing anymore except camping. We were 2 in the lead, their base was half caped and we have lost the game... What the hell are the developers doing? They reward this dumb behaviour? I guess we have lost, cause we have lower tons of Mech remaining. At this point the 8 Mann premade play for me is over. I'm not interested in 6 DDCs/2 3Ls fights with no tactics anymore...

[HC Harlequin]

KuruptU4Fun, on 07 December 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Yes those are the min/max groups, lacking in real skill and whose only interest is to max their K/D ratios. Until further changes are made to 8v8 matches they will be an unfortunate part of life.

http://mwomercs.com/...get-used-to-it/

[topgun505]

So HC the extent of your response is to link to a thread you created which was closed by a mod due to lack of content? If your form of entertainment is to be a troll and not contribute meaningfully to a discussion then please go back under the bridge from whence you came.

HC Harlequin, on 07 December 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...get-used-to-it/

[xX_Nero_Xx]

well bap use to counter ecm in all of the other mw games

[Felix]

fccolhitman, on 08 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

well bap use to counter ecm in all of the other mw games

a 1.5 ton 2 slot item countering a 1.5 ton 2 slot item?

That would make too much sense for PGI to do

[Vlad Ward]

KuruptU4Fun, on 07 December 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Yes those are the min/max groups, lacking in real skill and whose only interest is to max their K/D ratios. Until further changes are made to 8v8 matches they will be an unfortunate part of life.

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

No.

Those are not min/max groups.

Those are posers who think they're emulating what the actual min/max groups are doing because that's what half the forums have been preemptively complaining about for weeks.

From a min/max perspective:

-Spamming ECM is useless and a waste of Mech slots that could be used on Heavies that aren't affected by ECM.
-Spamming Atlases is useless and a waste of Mech slots that could be used on Heavies with twice the firepower.

Massed ECM teams are the easiest kills in the world for an actual min/max team.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 08 December 2012 - 08:13 AM.

[dF0X]

Lol, you asked for 8 mans and now you have them. What, you didn't think that might change strategy some?